DD wants a RG Uni that does F2F teaching - which will?

[mugglewump]

My DD is in the process of choosing which universities to apply for and wants Russell Group. After hearing Manchester say that blended learning will continue indefinitely, she has decided that F2F learning is (unsurprisingly) important to her. She is interested in Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle, Nottingham, Bristol, Kings, Cardiff and Southampton and would like to know which of these have declared an intention to return to face to face learning for 2022. If you have a DD or DS at any of these and know the uni's intention in terms of course delivery, can you share it please? She wants to study geography. TIA.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Online tutorials are great and I know that feedback across the sector is very positive about these

You see, this is a massive disconnect. I know literally noone who wants these.

I think it depends if you're talking about 1:1 tutorials or group discussions.

1:1 tutorials online are popular because it beats showing up for office hours and waiting forever and hoping the lecturer still has time left to talk to you. I had loads of 1:1 sessions this year and students really appreciated them.

Small group discussions online can be either good or terrible. It really varies a lot.

[quote dreamingbohemian]@fourminutestosavetheworld Have you contacted your department specifically to ask what blended learning will mean? Part of the reason university statements are so vague is because different departments will do blended learning differently. Your department should at this point be able to explain what's happening, I would keep emailing them for more information.[/quote]
Perhaps it should be down to the department to let the student know what form it will take?

@LoonvanBoon

We will be providing both, face to face with an online alternative.

However, as I said earlier, I seriously doubt that some courses will be able to return to pre-covid levels of contact time. Particularly in the sciences.

@Newgirls

Heaven knows! It’s current University policy. It may change, but I have work to what is current. I suspect that they have the best of intentions, but I feel like I am wading through treacle.

@Bryonyshcmyony

University imposed social distancing remains. Believe me, it isn’t an easy restriction for me to remove. I cannot book a room unless it is big enough to fit everybody in with social distancing.

I thought all requirements for social distancing had been lifted. Why are some universities persisting with this, making it more difficult to book rooms, timetable or return to pre-covid contact levels?

Durham are saying face to face unless something drastic changes

I suppose, in the end, those universities with a proportionate response will be more attractive to applicants. Those with unfathomable measures in place, or those who aren't transparent about what's on offer, will be the subject of threads like this as the year progresses and look less attractive maybe.

Perhaps it should be down to the department to let the student know what form it will take?

Of course, but as with anything else in life, sometimes it's good to be proactive.

My son starts a new school next week, they have not explained a few things so I have emailed to ask. I don't think I should have to but it takes a minute and hopefully I will get more info.

Not trying to excuse departments here, just offering a suggestion to get some information.

@fourminutestosavetheworld

I thought all requirements for social distancing had been lifted. Why are some universities persisting with this, making it more difficult to book rooms, timetable or return to pre-covid contact levels?

You could be very cynical about this.

DD has tried to find out more details, yes. She is directed back to the main website, and the department website, where information is updated daily. Unfortunately, the detail remains sketchy and without detail. Emails receive an auto reply saying that they'll be in touch 'within 5 working days' but then either you don't hear, or you are directed to the website. Eventually, you do start to feel that it's all a bit futile. I keep thinking that, if they just made their plans clear, they wouldn't be receiving so many calls and emails. It's frustrating.

I thought all requirements for social distancing had been lifted. Why are some universities persisting with this, making it more difficult to book rooms, timetable or return to pre-covid contact levels

On reflection, I think it has a lot to do with the inability to enforce mandatory vaccinations or even frequent testing among students (and staff) who are back on campus.

Financially, it doesn’t make sense.

"You could be very cynical about this."

Agreed. If they're not socially distanced at festivals, parties, bars, clubs and shops why try to distance them in seminars and lectures? Surely this must be at the request of over-cautious staff or so that rooms can be rented out for other things. I teach in a school where everything is back to normal in September and the parents wouldn't allow it to be any other way at this point I'm sure.

I did wonder whether they might be keeping social distancing when booking rooms so that they can quickly revert to that without large scale reorganisation and disruption in the event of an outbreak. But again, just be honest and tell us. I don't understand why government can't be more prescriptive with this really, just tell them to get back to f2f. Or then I suppose staff would be striking over being asked to do what everyone else is already doing.

I went to Manchester - if they are saying lectures online but tutorials and seminars F2F that's actually really no different in terms of delivery. The lectures are often 200+ students in a room listening for an hour, no interaction etc . Might as well do that from the laptop - same experience

Obviously, I'm assuming small group tutorials here. If it's 1:1 then f2f or zoom by arrangement is fine.

I was referring to 1:1 tutorials not seminars or group discussions.

Students prefer to have a 15 min 1:1 via teams at a specified time rather that travel to campus for this or hang around hoping the academic had time to fit them in. This is definitely something that worked better last year!

There seems to be some misplaced cynicism here. As far as I am aware, it isn’t at the request of over cautious staff. If it is, those staff are keeping a very low profile.

Rooms will not be rented out for other things because social distancing increases the need for space, not decreases it.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Online tutorials are great and I know that feedback across the sector is very positive about these

You see, this is a massive disconnect. I know literally noone who wants these.

Really? Students would prefer to travel onto campus for a 15 min 1:1 when they could done online?

I have to agree with the tutorials. Ours are longer but when given the option, many students would rather attend from their beds.

And, no, I am not being facetious.

@Etulosba

I have to agree with the tutorials. Ours are longer but when given the option, many students would rather attend from their beds.

And, no, I am not being facetious.

You would change a whole system so that students can stay in bed? Come off it.

No wonder people are starting to think unis aren't fit to turn out adults who can cope with working!

Surely no university can guarantee F2F as no one knows if there will be more lockdowns, if there will be covid outbreaks on campus etc

@HalzTangz

Surely no university can guarantee F2F as no one knows if there will be more lockdowns, if there will be covid outbreaks on campus etc

Covid outbreaks don't matter as long as students are double jabbed they don't need to isolate.

@fourminutestosavetheworld

DD has tried to find out more details, yes. She is directed back to the main website, and the department website, where information is updated daily. Unfortunately, the detail remains sketchy and without detail. Emails receive an auto reply saying that they'll be in touch 'within 5 working days' but then either you don't hear, or you are directed to the website. Eventually, you do start to feel that it's all a bit futile. I keep thinking that, if they just made their plans clear, they wouldn't be receiving so many calls and emails. It's frustrating.

That's awful and you have every right to be frustrated.

Has she tried emailing:

Her personal tutor
The head of department
The tutor(s) for modules she hopes to take this year
Any tutor she had last year who seemed helpful

i.e. emailing individual lecturers, not the department's programme staff

I received a lot of these kinds of emails over the summer, usually I could not give any more detail but I could at least tell them when I thought we would have more information.

Covid outbreaks don't matter as long as students are double jabbed they don't need to isolate.

They have to isolate if they test positive though -- you can still get covid if you're vaccinated, and it's possible that with no social distancing etc a lot more people will test positive.

If half your class cannot attend because they test positive, you have to come up with some online alternative.

I reckon my university feels we can switch on a dime if this happens, perhaps other universities are not confident about that and so are being more cautious.

@Etulosba

There seems to be some misplaced cynicism here. As far as I am aware, it isn’t at the request of over cautious staff. If it is, those staff are keeping a very low profile.

Rooms will not be rented out for other things because social distancing increases the need for space, not decreases it.

I apologise for the cynicism, genuinely. As a teacher we have been on the receiving end of a lot of criticism over the past year too, in rl and on here. Sometimes I felt defensive and sometimes I felt that people had a point, but at all times I thought 'well that's how it must be because of covid, because we have to follow the guidance.' Now there are no restrictions we are back to normal and I am struggling to understand why universities aren't, or why they're being cagey about their offer - there are no restrictions, there is no guidance telling them to do things a certain way, it's a choice.

I do appreciate hearing the other side of the argument. Some of what is being said does make sense.

Can anyone say why some universities are continuing to insist on social distancing when booking out rooms?

Thank you dreaming. Honestly I don't know if she has emailed all of those different people and will ask.

"If half your class cannot attend because they test positive, you have to come up with some online alternative."

What normally happens if a student is absent through illness?

Are you really expected to provide something for poorly students who might not even be up to looking at it? Wouldn't they just download notes, watch recordings and catch up by talking to their friends? It's a genuine question and I'm not being arsey. At school, we provided work for those isolating at home through contact, but not those testing positive and ill.