DD wants a RG Uni that does F2F teaching - which will?

[mugglewump]

My DD is in the process of choosing which universities to apply for and wants Russell Group. After hearing Manchester say that blended learning will continue indefinitely, she has decided that F2F learning is (unsurprisingly) important to her. She is interested in Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle, Nottingham, Bristol, Kings, Cardiff and Southampton and would like to know which of these have declared an intention to return to face to face learning for 2022. If you have a DD or DS at any of these and know the uni's intention in terms of course delivery, can you share it please? She wants to study geography. TIA.

I teach at a non RG. We are doing lectures live online and seminars face to face and online (for students who can't attend in person). I disagree strongly with the person up thread who said that lectures were pointless. An hour listening to someone who REALLY knows their stuff, who is a National or international leader on that topic, is worth 10 seminars where you talk to your mates supervised by a first year PhD student.

@SarahBellam

I teach at a non RG. We are doing lectures live online and seminars face to face and online (for students who can't attend in person). I disagree strongly with the person up thread who said that lectures were pointless. An hour listening to someone who REALLY knows their stuff, who is a National or international leader on that topic, is worth 10 seminars where you talk to your mates supervised by a first year PhD student.

I'm in my 50s, and I still remember things I learned at lectures 3 decades ago and more.

There's an obsession with 'collaborative learning' and 'peer feedback' in education these days, especially 3rd level. Not that it doesn't have its place, but there's also this idea that simply passively - although it's not really passive if you're engaged with it - listening to or reading from experts in the field is somehow 'old-fashioned'. Not everyone learns well from group discussions, at least not all of the time. I also strongly disagree with the notion that lectures are an ineffective way of learning.

‘We expect students to be here with us in Edinburgh to study’

On their website. To me that implies students are expected to live in Edin. They go on to say students can ‘request’ to study remotely. And that it will be blended.

It’s the ‘expect’ that seems off to me. Like they want students to pay rent even if they won’t all need to.

To me that implies students are expected to live in Edin.

To me, it means that they need to turn up for face-to-face teaching on campus.

Where they live is irrelevant, just like it was before covid.

They go on to say students can ‘request’ to study remotely. And that it will be blended.

Is that significant?

It’s the same as at my Uni.

It’s the first line on their website. So yes I think students assume they need to be there. Paying for accom.

It could say - ‘as we are offering blended this year you may want to stay in Edin or commute or opt to study online.’

I think they want the accom money

@Etulosba

To me that implies students are expected to live in Edin.

To me, it means that they need to turn up for face-to-face teaching on campus.

Where they live is irrelevant, just like it was before covid.

It totally suggests they want students to live in Edinburgh/campus

@Newgirls

‘We expect students to be here with us in Edinburgh to study’

On their website. To me that implies students are expected to live in Edin. They go on to say students can ‘request’ to study remotely. And that it will be blended.

It’s the ‘expect’ that seems off to me. Like they want students to pay rent even if they won’t all need to.

Maybe they want students to pay for accommodation, but nowhere does it suggest that they have to do so. It's not like their place of residence is going to be checked, is it?

It totally suggests they want students to live in Edinburgh/campus

Totally? Why would they care where they live as long as they turn up on campus as and when required?

If I was a confused 18 year old I would assume they wanted us on campus. It's so deliberately vague. It's really naughty of them.

@Bryonyshcmyony

If I was a confused 18 year old I would assume they wanted us on campus. It's so deliberately vague. It's really naughty of them.

That’s what I mean. Get the money in yet don’t tell students what they will actually get til the first matriculation week 🤷‍♀️

In defence of Edinburgh, they have outlined exactly what they will get at the module level (assuming no changes to restrictions). Plus apart from some professional courses, there aren't that many commuting students compared to the entire student body. DDs tutor clarified that commuting okay to all his local tutees. However online only needs to be requested. If it is like request to return after Christmas then it is a formality. DD didnt hear of anyone refused.

@Etulosba

It totally suggests they want students to live in Edinburgh/campus

Totally? Why would they care where they live as long as they turn up on campus as and when required?

Presumably they want the money from their student accommodation?

Totally? Why would they care where they live as long as they turn up on campus as and when required?

For many universities it is critical that they get students on campus because either they need the rent to service the loans they have taken out to build accommodation or they have given rent guarantees to commercial student landlords such as Unite and will have to pay out on their guarantees if the students do not turn up.

@Peaseblossum22

Totally? Why would they care where they live as long as they turn up on campus as and when required?

For many universities it is critical that they get students on campus because either they need the rent to service the loans they have taken out to build accommodation or they have given rent guarantees to commercial student landlords such as Unite and will have to pay out on their guarantees if the students do not turn up.

I get the bit about the unis needing to fill their own accommodation, but why do they need to pay rent guarantees to private student accommodation businesses? Surely they operate at their own risk?

Generally they have some kind of minimum occupancy agreement with the University. This is because the university will have incentivised the private providers to come in as otherwise they would have had to build accommodation themselves which mostly they couldn’t afford to do. It probably seemed low risk at the time because the chances of a situation occurring where students would not be on campus looked remote.

Often students will think they are in university owned accommodation but it is actually only managed by the university. Some universities have also entered into sale and leaseback arrangements

@Peaseblossum22

Totally? Why would they care where they live as long as they turn up on campus as and when required?

For many universities it is critical that they get students on campus because either they need the rent to service the loans they have taken out to build accommodation or they have given rent guarantees to commercial student landlords such as Unite and will have to pay out on their guarantees if the students do not turn up.

That makes sense peasebottom

Also cafes, bars, retail outlets etc on campus will be contracted out and need some customers

So happy to get students buying and going inside but wow betide they go in lecture theatres

At Oxbridge I believe it is a condition of your place that you must live within a mile or something like that. I am not sure about the rules eg of Edinburgh or Bristol as to whether you could enrol as a normal undergraduate but live in Australia for the year.

Even my sons' post grad course in week 1 starting 6 Sept people are asking on line if it is in person or not for the introductory lectures. Why does it not say? Eg they could add "for those attending [xyz course] in person this year your first physical session will be on xyz date. For the introductory sessions in the first week you must attend on line only". It is the lack of clarity which is so difficult.

Also I agree with the comment above about lectures. I remember a lot of my 1979 - 1982 law lectures even today. I am not making that up. I remember the halls, what people said (Professor Street ( of Street on Torts) did a different style where he would pick one person each time and ask them about the exercise or case), what lecturers were like, the law they told us about.

I have also given 1700 mostly all day or half day legal conferences - basically lectures since then and loads of people do like that style - to turn up, hear what you say, interact in person. Some of my regulars (I have stopped it for the last 2 years) come back year after year to hear me.

I also remember lectures from 30 years ago! Done well, lectures are an amazing experience. It probably varies a lot by subject though, my field is quite well suited for lectures.

In general I don't like generalisations about different aspects of learning -- saying that lectures are ineffective, or that online is terrible, etc etc. It really varies so much according to the subject and the quality of the teacher.

I am not sure about the rules eg of Edinburgh or Bristol as to whether you could enrol as a normal undergraduate but live in Australia for the year.

Attendance at some on-campus sessions is mandatory, so that might be tricky.

I had a student who ran his family business in Germany and commuted backwards and forwards every week. He graduated with an excellent first.

I also remember some amazing lectures but I had been brought up in that kind of teaching at school. It was very much chalk and talk and we were actively taught the skills of note taking, précis and summarise . ‘Active’ learning was not very much valued !!

However today’s undergraduates have been taught very interactively throughout school , it’s all about group work, collaboration, discussion etc. Although ds1 used to get very exasperated at University in seminars where he said time after time it was the same people who spoke and the rest just sat there staring into space.