Page 7 | DD wants a RG Uni that does F2F teaching - which will?

mugglewump · 2021-08-11T16:46:57+00:00

My DD is in the process of choosing which universities to apply for and wants Russell Group. After hearing Manchester say that blended learning will continue indefinitely, she has decided that F2F learning is (unsurprisingly) important to her. She is interested in Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle, Nottingham, Bristol, Kings, Cardiff and Southampton and would like to know which of these have declared an intention to return to face to face learning for 2022. If you have a DD or DS at any of these and know the uni's intention in terms of course delivery, can you share it please? She wants to study geography. TIA.

Bryonyshcmyony · 23/08/2021 18:58

So which course is it? Is it a straight forward BA/Bsc? Has this research been done post Covid lockdown?

Bryonyshcmyony · 23/08/2021 19:00

They don't choose them by seeing which one has the most online content I know that much unless they are keen on the OU or have disabilities which mean moving around is difficult.

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 19:30

@Bryonyshcmyony

So which course is it? Is it a straight forward BA/Bsc? Has this research been done post Covid lockdown?

The research is ongoing. We have a specialist marketing person and careers consultant who works alongside course leaders to ensure our offer reflects market trends as well as employment needs.

It's a standard course with professional accreditation. It's quite niche and not offered at many universities which is why my students prefer blended as it makes commuting easier. There are certain factors which makes my course particularly suited to blended learning which is why it is important to look at courses and universities on an individual basis. Blended doesn't work for all courses and I wouldn't ever say that it did. But to say it doesn't work at all is incorrect.

Oblomov21 · 23/08/2021 19:36

I've been on plenty of threads before and I really struggle with this. I can't grasp both sides points.

It was different for me because I went donkeys years ago, I paid no fees, so no £9k. And I had 3-4+ hours of language + history, politics, economics, literature etc lectures each day and I never missed a single one.

Why should my Ds1 go to uni and pay £9k, for mainly online learning, when he could pay £6k @ OU?

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 19:43

@Bryonyshcmyony

They don't choose them by seeing which one has the most online content I know that much unless they are keen on the OU or have disabilities which mean moving around is difficult.

Wrong again, why do you find it so hard to believe that some students want blended or online? I've had students request online and blended for years.....

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 19:45

@Oblomov21

I've been on plenty of threads before and I really struggle with this. I can't grasp both sides points.

It was different for me because I went donkeys years ago, I paid no fees, so no £9k. And I had 3-4+ hours of language + history, politics, economics, literature etc lectures each day and I never missed a single one.

Why should my Ds1 go to uni and pay £9k, for mainly online learning, when he could pay £6k @ OU?

But nobody is saying it will mainly be online..... just some!! And in the vast majority of cases it's still live, timetabled sessions

Bryonyshcmyony · 23/08/2021 19:45

Your course sounds pretty niche @SkinnyMirror

Bryonyshcmyony · 23/08/2021 19:46

Students wanted online lectures AND live lectures. They wanted choice. That was precovid

Now they have less choice!

Badbadbunny · 23/08/2021 19:55

@SkinnyMirror It's a standard course with professional accreditation. It's quite niche and not offered at many universities which is why my students prefer blended as it makes commuting easier.

Sounds more like a course for mature students rather than a typical undergraduate course for school leavers. So it's completely different than the vast majority of courses aimed at 18 year olds. Of course, older, mature, students will want a course that's flexible as regards not having to commute, etc as they're more likely to have other commitments such as children, maybe jobs, etc.

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 20:10

@Bryonyshcmyony

Your course sounds pretty niche *@SkinnyMirror*

I never said it wasn't a niche course. But the HE sector is big and varied which means you can't make sweeping generalisations.

Some courses are suited to online/blended but some aren't

Some students like blended/online but others don't

The quality of teaching and learning can vary between courses and institutions so saying all online content is shit is very unhelpful.

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 20:13

[quote Badbadbunny]**@SkinnyMirror* It's a standard course with professional accreditation. It's quite niche and not offered at many universities which is why my students prefer blended as it makes commuting easier.*

Sounds more like a course for mature students rather than a typical undergraduate course for school leavers. So it's completely different than the vast majority of courses aimed at 18 year olds. Of course, older, mature, students will want a course that's flexible as regards not having to commute, etc as they're more likely to have other commitments such as children, maybe jobs, etc.[/quote]
But again, that can vary between universities.
My university attracts a lot of commuter students and that includes 18 year old school leavers. We have a lot of WP students who also need to work alongside studying so blended does work well for them.

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 20:14

@Bryonyshcmyony

Students wanted online lectures AND live lectures. They wanted choice. That was precovid

Now they have less choice!

All my online lectures are live!

Bryonyshcmyony · 23/08/2021 21:11

[quote Badbadbunny]**@SkinnyMirror* It's a standard course with professional accreditation. It's quite niche and not offered at many universities which is why my students prefer blended as it makes commuting easier.*

Sounds more like a course for mature students rather than a typical undergraduate course for school leavers. So it's completely different than the vast majority of courses aimed at 18 year olds. Of course, older, mature, students will want a course that's flexible as regards not having to commute, etc as they're more likely to have other commitments such as children, maybe jobs, etc.[/quote]
Yep.

I think you are being disengenous @skinnym

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 21:36

Yep.

I think you are being disengenous @skinnym**

I'm really not. I've been pretty open in explaining that my course and uni attracts a lot of commuter students which is why blended learning not only works, but can be a selling point for students of all ages.

But I understand that doesn't fit with the 'all unis are shit/unis are trying to screw students/unis are stealing students money/all academics are lazy* narrative some of you are determined to push

*delete as appropriate

Bryonyshcmyony · 23/08/2021 21:47

Are they mainly mature students?

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 21:55

@Bryonyshcmyony

Are they mainly mature students?

Nope. We have a mix. I work in an education faculty so in addition to teaching courses we have other professional courses as well as childhood studies and youth and community work. Lots of school leavers / 18year olds.

We do have a lot of WP students who need to work alongside studying.

fourminutestosavetheworld · 23/08/2021 22:55

"I will people would stop putting words into our mouths and actually read what we're saying."

I am reading what you are all saying, but hearing different things on other threads, other forums, sm. DD's university is just saying 'blended learning' at the moment and it's unnerving, the lack of clarity. It's been an awful year for first years and none of us want even the shadow of it being like that again.

And, speaking only for myself, I do feel angry about lots of other things too. This is a RG university, competitive course, very aspirational for dd but she made her offer - only to have the accommodation she accepted months ago withdrawn.

You cannot reach anyone on the phone - it rings out. The live chat is available sometimes with very long waits and then you are often cut off. Emails are ignored after receiving a standard reply saying 'we'll reply within 5 working days.'

The stock response is 'everyone is now working from home.' Why? The rest of the country is back at work. Fair enough if you can maintain a fraction of your usual service but you can't.

We've paid accommodation, cleaning and catering included, and used none of it.

Threads like this one where academics say 'they won't be isolated because clubs and socials are running again' without any understanding that some kids don't want clubs and socials.

I don't doubt that Uni staff, like the rest of the non-furloughed country, have worked hard and been forced to adapt to the changing landscape but my goodness from the perspective of a parent it has been sub-standard and shit. You say things aren't like that where you work but I know dozens of parents with kids at a wide range of unis and they all feel the same. Not your fault maybe but when we come on here to vent and worry and hope that this year will be better, please don't dismiss us or make out like we're making stuff up.

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 23:13

Not your fault maybe but when we come on here to vent and worry and hope that this year will be better, please don't dismiss us or make out like we're making stuff up.

Likewise

I've not dismissed anyone and i've responded to numerous threads offering sympathy and advice and in return I've been called lazy, a liar, a wanker, unprofessional and have been told I'm shit at my job and deserve to be sacked which is all pretty disheartening when this year pretty much broke me. I went above and beyond for my students and was working 60+ hours while homeschooling my young children for a significant chunk of that time.

I genuinely believe this year will be better. As a sector we've learned so much and I think that the students will really benefit from this.
If you feel you're not getting what you were promised then please complain- I want you to complain because those universities and academics that are doing a bad job are making it worse for the rest of us.

Bryonyshcmyony · 23/08/2021 23:35

You haven't offered any advice other than to bleat on about how we don't know what we are talking about and to list your credentials. Turns out your degree is one thst has a large amount of students who wish to commute, it's not comparable to the university experiences that we are talking about. So irrelevant.

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 23:42

@Bryonyshcmyony

You haven't offered any advice other than to bleat on about how we don't know what we are talking about and to list your credentials. Turns out your degree is one thst has a large amount of students who wish to commute, it's not comparable to the university experiences that we are talking about. So irrelevant.

I change my username regularly because I use mn to get advice on a very rare medical condition which could be very outing.

I regularly offer advice on the HE board and have done for years. Usually on university applications, personal statements and clearing but more recently university complaints procedures. I was a first generation student and remember how stressful navigating the world of HE so I'm more than happy to offer advice and support where I can.

Themeparklover · 23/08/2021 23:46

Online learning is much better quality and standard honestly I wouldn't rule it out

SkinnyMirror · 23/08/2021 23:47

And BTW some universities have large numbers of commuter students. They are no less important or irrelevant than students who choose to move away when they go to university.
They are still entitled to a high quality teaching and learning experience.

I know MN struggles with the concept of commuter students ( only moving away to a RG university seems to count ) but this demographic of student increases every year and is increasingly becoming the focus of universities and the relevant governing bodies.

fourminutestosavetheworld · 24/08/2021 04:35

"I know MN struggles with the concept of commuter students ( only moving away to a RG university seems to count ) but this demographic of student increases every year and is increasingly becoming the focus of universities and the relevant governing bodies."

By all means offer tutorials via Teams and recordings of lectures for those who want them. I was a commuter student myself and those things would have been very helpful and saved many unnecessary journeys and lots of my time. They should be a useful adjustment not the default position imo.

To me, it feels as if, when pushing for changes to the way teaching is delivered, the main priority is the university itself however it is dressed up as 'thinking of the children'. If you were telling us that there would be online options for those who wanted them, who could possibly argue with that? Instead we are told about marvellous new better ways of working that you are certain everyone prefers, but this thread alone is testament to the fact that they don't all prefer it actually.

Lecturers might prefer to deliver a lecture without a fidgety audience slowing things down by asking questions, or to conduct tutorials from home via Zoom, but that isn't necessarily what the fee-paying student wants.

As a teacher, i held parents evenings via Zoom this year. I loved doing these from home. Many parents preferred it too - they could meet me from their home or office and we had the same chat, without the journey. So next year, we'll offer a choice. We are not assuming it is better for everyone or that everyone wants it because it works for us ourselves.

Hopefully, once students are back and universities are clearer about what they're offering these disagreements will be moot.

Bryonyshcmyony · 24/08/2021 07:25

I know MN struggles with the concept of commuter students ( only moving away to a RG university seems to count

It's the only thing that counts to students who are moving away to university and their parents yes. That's our area of expertise. It's just not true to say that the only reason students are unhappy about online teaching is because they are uniformed. By all means offer choice but keep face to face teaching please. If you work in a city university where lots of people commute then you have a particular area of expertise which may not be relevant to parents here unhappy with what their university is offering for their child. That's what I meant by you being disengenous

Peaseblossum22 · 24/08/2021 08:42

They are no less important or irrelevant than students who choose to move away when they go to university.

But by the same token they are not more important either.

For many universities the students that move there are keeping them afloat financially because of the arrangements universities have come to with commercial landlords and financial institutions. Universities were less than honest last year about this and sadly as evidenced by this thread and many others there is very little trust left between students, their parents( who are often their funders) and the university, sadly teaching staff are caught in the crossfire .