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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Universities deciding whether to continue online this year (updates?)

291 replies

dreamingbohemian · 06/08/2021 15:02

I've been on a few threads this year about whether universities will fully return to face to face learning this year or stay partly online.

My university told staff today that actually all teaching will be back to normal this year. Previously we had thought to keep large lectures online but now they have ditched that to go fully back to normal.

(Apologies for not outing myself by saying which university but it's a large London uni)

Just thought it might be helpful for people/parents to know that these decisions are getting firmed up now, so contact your university if you haven't heard anything yet -- and also just some optimism that maybe universities will be more f2f than expected this year.

OP posts:
TheMerrickBoy · 10/08/2021 15:21

In a normal year? I mean, this year on-campus it was rare to get 50% after about week 2, but to be fair that was often due to self-isolation etc....

I can't speak to all classes and all subjects, but certainly by the last week weeks of term, few sessions I'm aware of would get to 50%. Classes scheduled at 9am might never get to 50% all through term and might well be considerably below that.

TheMerrickBoy · 10/08/2021 15:29

I do think it's not a great decision some universities are making here, though I'd want to know exactly what's going to be online, and for how long. For instance, I think I could see a case for large lectures in the Autumn to be online with everything else on campus, whilst we wait for everyone to get double jabbed and can see how the cases go in Autumn.

Also possibly the last thing you want is chopping and changing - if in NOvember it turned out we had to pivot entirely that is more disruptive than if we'd had some mixture all along, I think.

What bothers me about all this is 1) it feels as though in the general conversation on the subject, all the online stuff we had to do last year is being rubbished, which isn't fair - it wasn't, and it took more work than normal teaching and 2) I suspect some RGs might be doing it so they can take far more students than they really have room for, which isn't great for anyone.

starrynight19 · 10/08/2021 15:38

Absolutely unbelievable @anotherRGacademic. Why on earth are you so different than anyone else ?
It’s beyond ridiculous now students need and deserve f2f learning Hmm

wishfuldreamer · 10/08/2021 16:07

I agree @TheMerrickBoy - i hope that this new-found enthusiasm for teaching will result in attendance. So dispiriting preparing lectures that no one comes to because they are at 9am or at the end of the day. I have a photo somewhere of a lecture theatre with 10 students in it (out of 400 who should have been in attendance)...

wishfuldreamer · 10/08/2021 16:10

oh, and I would say that absolutely part of it is about trying to cope with the anticipated huge numbers of students we've got this year due to a level results. we had already tried to assume we would have about 25% more students than usual. we now have almost double our usual intake if they all take up their offers. We don't have any physical teaching space big enough for that, even without social distancing requirements.

mumsneedwine · 10/08/2021 16:10

My DD never missed a lecture. 9am pretty much every day. Lecture theatre was always full. And recorded so could watch back later. Seems pretty standard amongst her friends 🤷‍♀️

SkinnyMirror · 10/08/2021 16:12

Me and my DH both work at different universities are we are planning on being completely back to normal.

My course has always had some online content which is obviously going to remain but far as we're concerned its business as usual.

mumsneedwine · 10/08/2021 16:13

Does not matter how good the in like provision was (& I'm afraid I'm lots of cases it was not good) the social side of lectures is irreplaceable. Maybe for older students who are doing a second course less so. But for teens who have moved away to meet cities on their own they are vital. Most people meet their course mates in lectures, form friendships and learn from each other.
F2f needs to return.

mumsneedwine · 10/08/2021 16:14

@SkinnyMirror thank you. Let's hope my kids go to your Unis 😊

mumsneedwine · 10/08/2021 16:15

PS I'm on a bumpy bus so apologies for typos. Been a long day with year 13 and results.

TheMerrickBoy · 10/08/2021 16:19

@mumsneedwine

My DD never missed a lecture. 9am pretty much every day. Lecture theatre was always full. And recorded so could watch back later. Seems pretty standard amongst her friends 🤷‍♀️
That's interesting @mumsneedwine - my daughter is a second year student and she and her friend were complaining last week about how none of their friends come to lectures and it's really annoying to be in a minority who attend! Shrug indeed!
mumsneedwine · 10/08/2021 16:22

@TheMerrickBoy mine likes lectures. As do her friends doing different subjects. In my day we had to attend 70% to complete the year and had to sign in each time. Maybe bring that back ?

TheMerrickBoy · 10/08/2021 16:26

Lol, I wish.

dreamingbohemian · 10/08/2021 17:11

I wouldn't mind mandatory attendance/participation but students hate it so not going to happen it seems.

It's not uncommon in the US for 30-40% of your final grade to be attendance/participation, it's a real incentive

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dreamingbohemian · 10/08/2021 17:13

@wishfuldreamer

oh, and I would say that absolutely part of it is about trying to cope with the anticipated huge numbers of students we've got this year due to a level results. we had already tried to assume we would have about 25% more students than usual. we now have almost double our usual intake if they all take up their offers. We don't have any physical teaching space big enough for that, even without social distancing requirements.
We apparently also have a huge intake this year, for the second year in a row, it's going to be a bit messy

I think they're combing every square inch of campus to repurpose classroom space

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Turkishangora · 10/08/2021 17:25

I moved from working professionally to lecturing in my profession during the pandemic. Due to the nature of what I'm teaching I do have to deliver f2f sessions and have done throughout. Personally I'm so grateful I "have" to do this. I MUCH prefer f2f and am pushing for as much f2f as is physically possible for the next academic year. The majority of students I've met hate the online learning, that's the reality, they're craving f2f and the reality of what they've signed up for

Unfortunately one thing I have noticed since shifting to academia is how entitled and precious some (not all by any means) of my academic colleagues are. They are actively pushing to keep as much online content as usual, using tired old safety arguments and talking about being 'terrified' about mingling with students. They are double jabbed and not in the vulnerable category. Considering we're teaching a healthcare discipline I think they need to get a grip, given how their colleagues in clinical practice have been grafting f2f throughout. It seems they're using covid as an excuse to just stay at home and not come in campus. Like I say it's some not all.

ShortBacknSides · 10/08/2021 17:28

I hope that you havn't been to any shops, restaurants, etc this Summer. There's nothing special about Uni lecturers. Millions of other people are back at work dealing with "dirty" young adults. Many millions of people continued to work throughout covid. It sounds like you have a very strange attitude towards risk.

Totally totally different situations - you cannot compare going to a supermarket, which is properly ventilated, where you're on the move, rarely in close contact with a stranger for 15+ minutes, and most people are sensible & wear masks.

Compared with being in an overcrowded unventilated lecture theatre, with aerosol droplets from people talking, hanging in the air, and no way to ventilate afterwards, unless you don't use the room for a few hours after each lecture. If the students wear masks, some risk might be mitigated, but ...

ShortBacknSides · 10/08/2021 17:34

As someone who will be doing all on-campus next year (or so it seems at the time of writing) I just really hope that all the stated desire for it, and the anger about any online content, is mirrored in attendance and engagement from students!

Yes, and yes.

I will be teaching in person, but socially distanced, and masked - because of age, & underlying vulnerabilities. I don't want to catch this horrid disease, even double vaccinated, I'm likely to get quite ill.

I am quite sceptical, cynical, and a tad anxious about having to put my health in the hands of 20 year olds who have demonstrated in the last 18 months - as a group, at my university certainly - that they had very little respect for the rules re mixing households, groups of six etc.

But we will teach in person, as for most of my subject, it is really the best way. However, the dribs & drabs of timetable I've been given so far (won't get my full t/t until a week before term starts) I have a Monday 9am class.

I will be expecting full attendance every week, unless someone is ill, and I'll be recording who is absent. I expect there will be many students losing marks for non-attendance; that will make me quite cross.

ShortBacknSides · 10/08/2021 17:36

I have a photo somewhere of a lecture theatre with 10 students in it (out of 400 who should have been in attendance)...

At that point, you'd be fully justified in putting your lectures online, unless there is full attendance.

CoffeeWithCheese · 10/08/2021 18:13

@Turkishangora

I moved from working professionally to lecturing in my profession during the pandemic. Due to the nature of what I'm teaching I do have to deliver f2f sessions and have done throughout. Personally I'm so grateful I "have" to do this. I MUCH prefer f2f and am pushing for as much f2f as is physically possible for the next academic year. The majority of students I've met hate the online learning, that's the reality, they're craving f2f and the reality of what they've signed up for

Unfortunately one thing I have noticed since shifting to academia is how entitled and precious some (not all by any means) of my academic colleagues are. They are actively pushing to keep as much online content as usual, using tired old safety arguments and talking about being 'terrified' about mingling with students. They are double jabbed and not in the vulnerable category. Considering we're teaching a healthcare discipline I think they need to get a grip, given how their colleagues in clinical practice have been grafting f2f throughout. It seems they're using covid as an excuse to just stay at home and not come in campus. Like I say it's some not all.

I guessed from the first line of your post that you were doing a healthcare related subject. We've had a ridiculous amount of stuff online that really really needed to be face to face - and it's definitely affected confidence in doing the role when qualified and marks for assignments (a lot of mine seem to have been moderated up quite a bit so there must have been a drop in some of our modules this year).

I really need to know from uni what kind of mix we're looking at, and also how much of the Covid-stuff remains on campus as I found the complete yellow and black hazard tape and bizarre one-way system arrows every 1 metre apart to be completely sensory overloading - and I don't think realistically I can cope with campus at that level of doom laden hysteria again this year and I'll have to defer (I'm on the waiting list for an assessment for Autism). We've had utter radio silence from uni which is just not on.

Xenia · 10/08/2021 18:34

Even if attendance is low sometimes it is still worth it if 10% of students go and 90% listen after as at least the 10% get to meet other students etc

If there are only 10 students in a place that takes 400 that is presumably great for lecturers worried about covid. May be given those vulnerable ones the 9am slots.

Turkishangora · 10/08/2021 18:36

@CoffeeWithCheese doom laden hysteria is what it is! And it makes me cross as I was still working clinically for the first 6 months of the pandemic the difference in attitudes between clinical and academic colleagues, to be honest I found quite a lot of ego at the uni I work at! Teaching the skills I used is a walk in the park compared to doing them in clinical practice!

sashagabadon · 10/08/2021 18:40

@anotherRGacademic

I'm yet another Russell Group academic mumsnetter and my university is currently planning for all large lectures (which is practically all lectures, courses with small lectures having long since been deemed unviable) to be online. Given that timetabling takes months at the best of times I doubt the university's going to change policy now, at least for the autumn term. If it does, though, and I am instructed to lecture in person, I think what I will do is to strongly advise my students not to attend, turn up in a respirator which I will not take off, and play my recorded videos on the projector. There are three reasons: the community, the students, myself.

The community: by the start of term a large proportion of our students (many of whom are only 17, and have only just become eligible to be vaccinated at all) will not be fully vaccinated. Our lecture theatres are overcrowded if we have anything like full turn out, and hardly ventilated, and there's very little that can be done about this in the available buildings (no windows, for a start). Case numbers are already starting to tick up again, and that's even before the schools have gone back. The idea that by the start of semester it'll be safe to lecture in person without expecting a resulting explosion of cases among students that will act as a centre of infection for the rest of the community seems frankly silly. Indeed it would be perfect conditions in which to select, and then spread, a vaccine-resistant mutant.

The students themselves: are not invulnerable. This is an age group which is quite susceptible to post-viral effects, even if they are not very likely to be hospitalised and die. And even if they do make a straightforward recovery, catching covid (or flu) is not harmless to them and their studies. Even missing a week of work during semester is very difficult to catch up from. Miss a month, and most can forget successfully completing the year. Moreover, students away from home, maybe for the first time, living in halls or shared accommodation with noone to look after them if they're ill? I wouldn't want a child of mine catching covid under those circumstances. I would not feel it was ethical to encourage students to congregate for in person lectures, and if my employer does it, I'll feel obliged to give contrary advice as an individual.

Myself: I've just spent a month making high quality video versions of my lectures, with hand-corrected captions, to a deadline that recently passed, because the university told me lectures would be online. As a result I haven't been able to take the annual leave I was due (well, nothing new there, only the reason varies). You think I'm now going to throw away that work and do the work of giving live lectures as well? Forget it. I'll take a book to my "play my video" in person sessions if I have to do them. (Giving live lectures to several hundred students is stressful, even when you are used to it. It doesn't just take the hour you do it for: it wipes you out for much longer.) An often-forgotten point is that immediately before the pandemic, we had the longest and most serious strike of academic staff in living memory. The level of goodwill and trust from lecturing staff to management is about zero.

Gosh, what a depressing post.
user1497207191 · 10/08/2021 19:25

@Xenia

Even if attendance is low sometimes it is still worth it if 10% of students go and 90% listen after as at least the 10% get to meet other students etc

If there are only 10 students in a place that takes 400 that is presumably great for lecturers worried about covid. May be given those vulnerable ones the 9am slots.

Brilliant way of looking at it. Surely it’s a benefit for the terrified lecturers if attendance is low as it will reduce their risk even further.
Newgirls · 10/08/2021 21:02

Thanks for the update dreaming

Let’s hope so for dd Scottish uni - I think so but they do keep mentioning working from home too