Universities deciding whether to continue online this year (updates?)

[dreamingbohemian]

I've been on a few threads this year about whether universities will fully return to face to face learning this year or stay partly online.

My university told staff today that actually all teaching will be back to normal this year. Previously we had thought to keep large lectures online but now they have ditched that to go fully back to normal.

(Apologies for not outing myself by saying which university but it's a large London uni)

Just thought it might be helpful for people/parents to know that these decisions are getting firmed up now, so contact your university if you haven't heard anything yet -- and also just some optimism that maybe universities will be more f2f than expected this year.

The international students at my dd uni are all flying in now - they seem very keen to get to the UK and are isolating in many cases.

So they seem to want the face to face experience even though it must cost a fortune more 🤷‍♀️

user1497207191 I really don’t know any lectures that are terrified, or even nervous. We’re looking forward to getting back to face to face. Anotherrgacademic is not by any means typical.

@Kazzyhoward what a horrible, insensitive and ableist reply.

Providing recorded lectures online that students can watch in their own time and watch repeatedly is substandard rather than a reasonable adjustment? When so many students don't attend f2f lectures anyway? Ffs!

Evidence shows that students retain very, very little information from a traditional, lecture so it is a deeply ineffective way to teaching, sub-standard some might even say.

And, as seems to have escaped you, some teaching staff also have disabilities and so ways of making university teaching more inclusive for them are important too. Academia is far from diverse and that really needs to change.

Many unis are providing a hybrid model of lectures online and seminars/small group teaching f2f. I've heard a lot of parents moaning while students themselves say they like the model and find it much better. (Obviously, not all parents or all students). I know for students who are also parents or carers and students from low income backgrounds there are advantages too of not having the travel time for lectures. Ways of being more inclusive for all students using methods that are more efficient for students' retaining information is a good thing.

I really don't understand the anger whipped up over an ineffective and inefficient teaching/learning method that has low attendance numbers in many places.

I do understand annoyance if absolutely everything is to be online again. But not many universities are proposing that, are they?

GlencoraP, DD was entirely on line last year on a degree where group projects were a major part of the course and where a large proportion were from overseas.

Working through Zoom, meeting group deadlines and supporting people you had never met, coping with different time zones. A friend was impressed. It was the way his IT based firm worked. The new normal, pandemic or no pandemic.

SE Asia and China are really suffering with COVID at the moment and this does not look as if it will change soon. (Philippines and Thailand are now revaccinating those who originally had Chinese vaccines as they seem to have lower efficacy and Delta is so infectious.) Universities will have to do something. Similarly the world and the ‘work’ environment is changing. DH really likes the idea of only having to go into work twice a week so skipping the daily slog across London. Universities will face similar pressures from their staff.

(One silver lining of online teaching may be the ability of academics to climb the ladder by allowing them to take suitable jobs across the country, without having to move their families. Something that should benefit women who, hitherto, risked getting trapped in ‘local’ jobs.)

Getting on campus and meeting others is clearly important to students. However F2F lectures are not the only way to achieve this. In normal times plenty skipped lectures anyway.

There was already a direction of travel with lectures being recorded (with or without the commentary from the third row!) and this will continue. Universities will want to offer students a good experience. Rather than argue for the old normal, now is the time to shape a better new normal.

FWIW DDs learning experience last year was great, and to be honest she probably did better because of the lack of distractions. She is not as enthusiastic about the 18 months being in a bubble with her parents, but seems to see this as a pandemic problem not a University one. She also saved a lot of money.

The Universities that thrive will be the ones who see opportunities rather than threats, and who have the vision to shape the offer that will appeal best to students in the future. This will include some form of blending.

Britstol before the pandemic on my son's subject recorded all lectures so those who had had a heavy night drinking and were not up at 9am or who learn by listening again and again could listen after and those who wanted to be there in person whether to hear the thing or meet their friends and go out after could do it that way. That sounds ideal to me and was being done before the pandemic.

Even if only one student is in the lecture hall that could still work. I have given law lectures (even a full day course) to 1 - 3 people. It is not the end of the world and as I was still being paid it was no skin off my nose.

Yes, it's seminars where low attendance is really a problem (although low attendance for lectures does somewhat give the lie to the argument that students are absolutely desperate to be on campus and that's the only way they'll learn).

In a seminar where only a few turn up, that's really rough for them, because they don't get the same opportunities for discussion, or hear the answers to questions that their peers raise aboout assessment and so on. IME, lectures are generally better attended than seminars, because they only require you to sit and listen, and not having done the prep or have any input will go unnoticed, whereas in a seminar you are more likely to be exposed if you haven't prepared, unless you're a very good blagger.

So yeah, I really hope this whole conversation has prompted students to reflect on the value of being there - that would be a really good outcome.

Xenia, however what about the lecturer who may have commuted some distance, say to Central London, in order to deliver an in person lecture to 1-3 people, when she sees her lawyer, GP, banker neighbours only doing two days a week in the office.

Instead her time could be looked at and a decision made as what F2F was most valuable. Then commute in for two days a week. The University/students benefit because there is a greater pool of staff that can be considered, and academics benefit because there is a greater range of jobs they can apply for without uprooting family. Plus more research time.

And students, see others on their course and continue to base their social life around flats, sports, Wetherspoons or whatever, and get an early taste of the new workplace normal.

And yes, it's no skin off the lecturer's nose, as you say Xenia, if only one person shows up - but a bit of a shame for the one person. Partly because there's this sense that lectures should also be an opportunity for socialising, as so many posters have said - that these are a very important way for students to see each other, and that this is central to their experience, and the loss of it requires financial recompense....

But also, it's like anything you go to watch or see - it's a bit grim being the only member of the audience, and it does change the whole experience for the poor souls who do turn up!

I don’t understand the lecturer wanting to work from home. That’s the wrong job then surely? Or work for an online provider, or tutor?

It might be that online teaching roles become more normal but if you signed up for f2f teaching preferring to work at home isn’t to be expected?

TheMerrickBoy

Attendance is easier to monitor on line. DD tells me that the easiest way to fail her medical degree (she was taking a different intercalation degree last year) is to skip too much. Obviously we don't want doctors with gaps in their knowledge, but online will allow better monitoring of progress across a range of courses, and indeed of welfare. A student who is struggling for whatever reason is the one most like to stop attending.

In my first year (2019) I attended any lecture in sane day as tutorials but watched online any on days I didn't have to go in. Not every student lives near campus.

More productive this year where 90% lectures were pre-recorded to schedule one subject per day so could do lecture, reading and tutorials work all in one day, then onto another module.

@Newgirls

I don’t understand the lecturer wanting to work from home. That’s the wrong job then surely? Or work for an online provider, or tutor?

It might be that online teaching roles become more normal but if you signed up for f2f teaching preferring to work at home isn’t to be expected?

Newgirls, every second person in London, possibly more, seems to be working from home. Civil servants, bankers, GPs, lawyers, the lot. And it looks as if it will take a hell of a lot to tempt them back into the office full time.

There is an odd assumption on this board that lecturers are teachers for big kids, and should be judged as such. They are not. For many the primary function is research, and they, and Universities, are judged on research quality. Good research attracts good students, and indeed good research attracts funding.

I went to visit university of law recently and they said they were trying to encourage a 2 day out if 5 campus experience.

So all in person activity focussed on 2 days only to reduce travel for people.

Now they are a money driven organisation but it appealed to me. I want in person tutorials-online ones have been woeful as no one wants to put camera on at all so everyone hides.
But I don't want to be traveling 5 days a week fir say 1 hour of something.

@Newgirls

I don’t understand the lecturer wanting to work from home. That’s the wrong job then surely? Or work for an online provider, or tutor?

It might be that online teaching roles become more normal but if you signed up for f2f teaching preferring to work at home isn’t to be expected?

I don't want to work from home, I'm sick of my home! And really, this job in normal times offers a good balance and flexibility for a lot of people - I don't want to try to claim we're the most hard done to in the world, and I do really appreciate being able to, for example, do some prep and admin at home sometimes rather than clocking in and out. We're lucky in that way.

I did, however, want to work at home in November when the whole country was in lockdown, and I was teaching horrible desolate distanced, poorly attended seminars, which I knew could have actually had better attendance and engagement online (not least because a lot of students went straight home when the lockdown loomed or when tiers kicked in) but we ploughed on regardless.

The fact that many of us will speak up for the efficacy of our online provision, argue that there was a time when it was the right call, and have concerns about the rationale for some of the on-campus teaching, doesn't mean we all want to stay in our houses forever.

I don’t understand the lecturer wanting to work from home. That’s the wrong job then surely? Or work for an online provider, or tutor?

It might be that online teaching roles become more normal but if you signed up for f2f teaching preferring to work at home isn’t to be expected?

This issue is academics have always worked from home at least part of the week. It wasn't such a big change for many of us. You also need to remember that for some academics, teaching is a small part of their job and isn't something they prioritise.

I'm not saying that's right and it's certainly not the view I hold or any of my colleagues hold. We're all desperate to get back to campus..... in a faculty Teams call last week we spent ages talking about what we'd missed about being on campus.

I was told my university would be doing hybrid teaching last year with only lectures online but they changed that to fully online the day learning started So they've said hybrid again this year and we're all doubtful... not getting hopes up

The fact that many of us will speak up for the efficacy of our online provision, argue that there was a time when it was the right call, and have concerns about the rationale for some of the on-campus teaching, doesn't mean we all want to stay in our houses forever.

100% this. Online was far better than socially distanced f2f teaching and, I personally think it's good to have some online content. A blended approach can be super effective.

Also... after Gavin Williamson says universities should be reducing fees for those still online, I'm doubtful any will take his advice. There was a lot of taking advantage of young adults moving to a city they never needed to be in and paying thousands in rent

But there is now no need for socially distanced learning as it can go back to normal. Normal is what we all want and the students want a chance to learn with a human in front of them. Snd humans around them. If they don't go that's their loss. Attendance is v easy to monitor as they sign in or swipe their student card on a reader (v cheap as we bought them for 6th form).
If it's going to be on line lectures then Unis are going to need less staff - only need to record once and can use for years.

Well of course but then work at home on research days and at work on teaching days

It does sound like for some students are an inconvenience!

It does sound like for some students are an inconvenience!

Unfortunately for some academics they are.

I work at a post 92 ex poly and we take teaching very seriously. However, I've worked at others universities where teaching was a necessary evil and not prioritised because it's all about research. I don't agree with that stance but it does still happen in a lot of places.

If it's going to be on line lectures then Unis are going to need less staff - only need to record once and can use for years.

Online doesn't necessarily mean pre-recorded. All my online teaching is live. I'm doing a mix from September but all my teaching will be timetabled and live - it's just some of it will be via teams.

We're all desperate to get back to campus..... in a faculty Teams call last week we spent ages talking about what we'd missed about being on campus.

That is no different from many professions. DH (not an academic) has been holed up in the spare bedroom for 18 months, and apart from a "Team Picnic" last summer has not seen any of his colleagues. Younger colleagues were allowed back in to the office first because it was agreed that they took priority when numbers were reduced because of social distancing. He is looking forward to the return in October, but is very happy that they are only looking for 2/3 days. The non commuting days will be useful for producing longer pieces of work.

I assume that for academics something similar will also be most productive. Indeed for students, especially those that are less well off, mature students, those with disabilities, or from cultures that discourage living away from home, as it will expand the range of options available and reduce costs.

DD was required to have her camera on for all seminars and tutorial sessions. A lot of learning about how to make Zoom sessions more efficient is happening quickly. Her tutor, for example, was very good at encouraging some small talk at the start of each session, so the tutorial group started to get to know each other, whilst WhatsApp groups were busy and useful.

It also highlighted some behaviours. One boy appeared dismissive of girls, and seemed to think he should be the one to allocate work whilst doing relatively little himself. Being on line with lots recorded on the group chat allowed DD to think through a constructive response, rather than just get irritated.

(In the end she decided it was useful that someone took the lead, even if self appointed, did her allocated work quickly so was around to help others, including him, with the last day panic, and then added some constructive comments on the peer to peer feedback. The group as a whole got a good 2.1 for the project but peer comments lifted her grade to a first. The distance on-line creates, oddly improved her learning around team dynamics. And hopefully the boy had a useful lesson in the way he was perceived by others. )

This is without doubt a very difficult situation for all concerned however another year like this one is not viable for most students. For those who were subject to the strikes and are going into year 3 some may only have had one term of in person full time delivery, that’s just simply not acceptable and I think there will be ructures if students have another year off campus.

Students have always skipped lectures ( although actually I loved them) how many of the academics on here attended every lecture in person and never skipped because it was at 9.00am ? Let’s not be all holier than thou about it. I for one would happily the demise of the big lecture in favour of more small group teaching but that is expensive so unlikely .

Universities have sold themselves to ever increasing cohorts on the basis on ‘an experience’. I have little sympathy for universities who have offered hugely over their places when it was clear to even a layman that most people would get their predicted grades . It would have been more sensible to under offer and then have more places available in clearing.

On the post above about seeing lawyers only going in a few days a week, it is a different job. Also my son has been in full time every day in a physical law office for the last 3 months as that particular law firm is open as usual. My lawyer daughters as far as I know are going into the physical office and their spouses one of which works in the banking sector. My delivery driver son has been in work obviously every day he has been at work since march 2020 and my NHS consultant doctor sibling has obviously been going into the hospital.

It will just come down to money and strength of unions and student's demands in terms of paying for places at the end of the day.