Universities deciding whether to continue online this year (updates?)

[dreamingbohemian]

I've been on a few threads this year about whether universities will fully return to face to face learning this year or stay partly online.

My university told staff today that actually all teaching will be back to normal this year. Previously we had thought to keep large lectures online but now they have ditched that to go fully back to normal.

(Apologies for not outing myself by saying which university but it's a large London uni)

Just thought it might be helpful for people/parents to know that these decisions are getting firmed up now, so contact your university if you haven't heard anything yet -- and also just some optimism that maybe universities will be more f2f than expected this year.

@LIZS. DD getting a better deal from Edinburgh next semester: 6 out 9 hours f2f per week (last year it was 1 hour per week for the first term only). I am a bit surprised students who are paying so much as so accepting.

@ClerkMaxwell can't remember what subject your dd takes. However dd so far has 10 hours pw of lectures (reducing to 9 partway through) all online, of which 2 are prerecorded. Tutorials still to be added, which may yet be in person.

@LIZS DDs subject is social policy (was economics). I think it is the quants options in social policy (and the fact social policy not as popular) that is improving her amount of f2f. I would balk at paying £500-£600 per month for a second year flat for so little f2f if my DDs course was like your DDs.

@ClerkMaxwell One of dd's options is a Social Policy course but has 2 pre recorded lectures and "live" q&a timetabled, but online. She is living very close to campus and may at least work from there to watch lectures.

@LIZS. You are right I think DD is lucky in that one of her social policy options is f2f as I can see all other SP courses are online lectures. I know SP lends itself to online lectures but without f2 DDs only classmate 'friends' were the older women in her online tutorial who had started social work degrees now their kids were settled at school. Not exactly what she imagined from the open day but she was glad for their chat.

Dd had an update from her department earlier that they will offer "a mixture of on campus, in person and digital classes". All students are expected to be in Edinburgh unless specifically exempted.

You see this fascinates me. Why would a student ‘need’ to be in Edinburgh if only needed on campus say 3 days a week?

Some will come and go perhaps. Though it is a fab city to live in if they want to be there!

If only two days on campus might as well share rooms with another student or book a travel lodge!

It seems like the uni want the income from the accom

You see this fascinates me. Why would a student ‘need’ to be in Edinburgh if only needed on campus say 3 days a week?

This has always been the case. If a student moves away to university they are creating a life there. This will involve more than just attending lectures or seminars.
It will involve clubs, societies,other university facilities, a social life and often a part time job.

Not sure it has always been the case that students only need to be on campus 3 days a week (or 7 hours per week in my DDs case which with judicious choice of tutorial groups could be done in 2 days). In my day it was at least four days and similarly for my two older DC. Contact hours seem to have reduced massively. I can understand if money is tight, students not being able to justify the living away for social reasons in high cost cities like Edinburgh.

It really does depend on the course and often the university.

25 years ago I was only in three days.

We make a conscious effort to make sure students have lectures all happening on the same days as we know they need to work.

www.theweek.co.uk/news/uk-news/953883/will-more-universities-ban-unvaccinated-students?_mout=1&refid=4155B8B09FC6ED138BE8695593EE39FC&utm_campaign=theweekdaily_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter
A UK university has become the first in the country to ban students from living on campus if they cannot prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19.

... Hartpury University has warned it will be a “mandatory requirement” for students living in halls of residence to show they have had at least one jab, reportedThe Telegraph. Additionally, sixth-form students who have not been vaccinated have been banned from living at Hartpury College, part of the same estate near Gloucester ...

... Although the Department for Education said last month that there were “no plans” for proof of vaccine status to be required on a national basis to attend lectures or stay in halls of residence, there is speculation that other establishments may follow Hartpury’s lead ...

... There is also the possibility that a national ruling could yet be made. Last month, a senior government source toldSky Newsthat ministers “aren’t ruling out” requiring university students to be fully vaccinated against coronavirus to attend lectures and stay in halls this coming academic year ...

I thought that universities were specifically banned from requiring students to be vaccinated?

Ours have just said masks need to be worn in halls. Surely vaccination would be preferable

@MarchingFrogs

www.theweek.co.uk/news/uk-news/953883/will-more-universities-ban-unvaccinated-students?_mout=1&refid=4155B8B09FC6ED138BE8695593EE39FC&utm_campaign=theweekdaily_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter A UK university has become the first in the country to ban students from living on campus if they cannot prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19.

... Hartpury University has warned it will be a “mandatory requirement” for students living in halls of residence to show they have had at least one jab, reportedThe Telegraph. Additionally, sixth-form students who have not been vaccinated have been banned from living at Hartpury College, part of the same estate near Gloucester ...

... Although the Department for Education said last month that there were “no plans” for proof of vaccine status to be required on a national basis to attend lectures or stay in halls of residence, there is speculation that other establishments may follow Hartpury’s lead ...

... There is also the possibility that a national ruling could yet be made. Last month, a senior government source toldSky Newsthat ministers “aren’t ruling out” requiring university students to be fully vaccinated against coronavirus to attend lectures and stay in halls this coming academic year ...

I thought that universities were specifically banned from requiring students to be vaccinated?

They have said that unvaccinated students are not allowed to live in university halls of residence and engage in some social and sporting activities. They are not being prevented from attending the university. Universities have greater autonomy over their own commercial enterprises.

I haven't looked at the details but dd stated that Warwick were advertising large conferences again... I can't understand why it's OK to hold large conferences on the university site but not hold lectures.. But I guess it's all down income.

@Daisysway

I haven't looked at the details but dd stated that Warwick were advertising large conferences again... I can't understand why it's OK to hold large conferences on the university site but not hold lectures.. But I guess it's all down income.

It will be partly money, but it will also be because conference attendees largely remain in their own conference bubble. Usually they live, eat and meet in the dedicated conference facilities, rather than going to a lecture and then mingling with 25,000 other students.

Hmmm... Well my daughter would not be mixing with 25k other students. She would be attending a lecture then going home to a bubble of 5 who she would be eating and mixing with (2nd year household).

Holding conferences where people come from all over the UK or maybe even further afield seems to be just showing how much you don't care about the students... In fact I understand that there is likely to be a massive rent strike again because of this.

I'm surprised anywhere's doing live conferences - I only know of online ones, right up to January! Bit jealous...

@Newgirls

You see this fascinates me. Why would a student ‘need’ to be in Edinburgh if only needed on campus say 3 days a week?

Some will come and go perhaps. Though it is a fab city to live in if they want to be there!

I've still heard nothing from my uni and am having hard thinks about whether I carry on - the only bits I DO know about the on-campus arrangements are because I made an advice appointment and the guy carrying it out had been onto campus the previous day (I struggle with the sensory overload of all the yellow and black signage and one way arrows - last year campus resembled a giant fucking wasp doing some dystopian Crystal Maze challenge to find your way out of the building again). Nothing on timetables -we normally don't get those till the week before term starts, but nothing on online/offline splits or anything.

Worst case is that we get timetabled for "x days worth" of on-campus learning but it's an hour here and there and loads of trapped time - I commute anyway and it's a good couple of hours to get in, but last year a lot of the students decided (quite sensibly really) that as our campus time was blocked into one day here and there, they were just going to travel in as and when required.

I always wish I knew what was considered the best TT distribution by students - would they rather have it all on a few days, or something, even if small, on most days? I feel like it's one of those things we tend to assume and guess wrongly. Or perhaps one of those things where different people have different preferences?

With the blended mix it is much more preferable for those who don't live on campus to have it blocked in on days - otherwise we have a 2 hour commute (and I don't come the furthest by any stretch) for the odd thing. That was initially what was promised last year before it all went absolutely to shit.

@Daisysway

Hmmm... Well my daughter would not be mixing with 25k other students. She would be attending a lecture then going home to a bubble of 5 who she would be eating and mixing with (2nd year household).

Holding conferences where people come from all over the UK or maybe even further afield seems to be just showing how much you don't care about the students... In fact I understand that there is likely to be a massive rent strike again because of this.

So your daughter is only planning to attend one lecture? She's not going to go to any other lectures, seminars, practical, tutorials? She's not planning to use the library, study spaces, cafes, bars, sporting facilities, students union or attend any social events on campus? And neither are any of the people that she lives with?

Warwick Conferences is a separate commercial arm of the university. The majority of what they do is conducted in their own facilities that are not used by the students. During term time they sometimes use some of the lecture theatres, but it is unlikely that they will be doing that due to pressure on space for teaching rooms. The only real way they affect the students is that the money the university earns from these commercial activities is used to subsidise the student experience.

So essentially the students are planning to conduct a rent strike because the university is using its own private facilities that the students don't use, to host people the students wont meet, to generate money for them?

I assume Warwick have limited information/details of the people attending the conferences so they could be public facing, medical professionals and/or travelling from other countries etc.

You seem to have rose tinted spectacles that envisage students having lots of f2f contact next year with both university staff and students on their course . It would indeed be lovely if my daughter was going to lectures or seminars but sadly I don't think that will be the case (there were no f2f lectures or seminars last year) they are again online. Which leaves labs which (were) incredibly covid safe and socially distanced (I can't see that changing but she only had a few last year - the majority were again online). Other than that she has a tutor group of 8/9 (actually 6/7 because 2 have dropped out) who no doubt will still be sitting in a massive room socially distanced once again (I think she managed just 2 visits to the library last year and a couple of coffees after tutorials). She was off campus for most of term 2 and term 3 just seems to be very short (although they are paying full terms accommodation) and primarily exams. Most of her course last year was lectures (8 to 13 a week) all of which were online. She just sat looking at a screen on some days which is certainly not healthy and it takes a lot of self discipline. She'd probably have some chance of meeting some of these 25000 people if she could go to lectures but now she's off site I can't actually see her socialising outside her housemates/friends...maybe the odd coffee meet up in library with her tutor group.

The students last year lost all the benefits of being on campus and socialising with the (25k) of students on site or even a decent number of the 400 on my dds course or similar. Not having lectures is not opening up any further opportunities once again. She's likely to join a gym but not the one on site because it's fairly expensive and not located near where she's living. The students paid alot of money for campus accommodation last year to which they had very little benefit. The fact that the only grocery site on campus (coop) rips students off with high prices also speaks volumes. (I realise there is Cannon Park).

If lecture theatres aren't being used for students they should not be used for conferences. It is however, good if conferences bring in income but I think you will find a lot of very annoyed students if they see lecture facilities being used by large external groups.

Im sure if you asked students to do LFT they would before attending lectures and I assume the lecturer is not actually standing close to the students. Most of these students are fully vaccinated in the hope that things could get back to normal and they could meet even just a small percentage of the 25k of students.

You can't motivate students to love their course and modules when they are sitting behind a screen with no or very little interaction. You can't imagine having to write up a lab report when you have not done the most exciting part.. the actual lab. I think blended learning is fine but it needs to be at least 60 to 70 percent f2f. I can see my dd only being on campus this year for her weekly tutorials and any labs which are less than once a week. I want my dd to actually want to get out of bed in the morning because she has something course related to attend!

You can't motivate students to love their course and modules when they are sitting behind a screen with no or very little interaction

Yes you can. I found my students interacted very well online last year through breakout rooms and online peer support groups.

I'm not saying students shouldn't have f2f teaching but it seems people are determined to see no positives or benefits of online delivery and can't seem to get their heads around the fact it can and does work very well.

As for rise tinted glasses around f2f contact - there are a number of academics on this thread who know how much f2f teaching they are doing.