Students full return to campus

[DoNotBringLulu]

This came up on my Facebook feed:

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/apr/13/university-campuses-in-england-will-not-reopen-until-mid-may

If this is true, Boris et al have some explaining to do.

Unis just shut the doors and locked everyone out in October, well before the government told them too.

I distinctly remember teaching students face-to-face at a university all through the autumn term.

I distinctly remember teaching students face-to-face at a university all through the autumn term.

Me too......

how does a virtual teacher training placement work?

For DD it was the first year placement, during the spring term - 6 or 8 weeks iirr. All virtual.
Group of 6 or 8 students allocated to one school with one tutor. Weekly mentor meeting at 7:30am as a group to set tasks. All online. It finished the week after pupils returned to school.
Tasks included lesson planning, research about school, essays, etc. 'Taught' one lesson as a group to a bunch of 6 children who were in the classroom at school. DD and her fellow students were all sat individually in their separate accommodation, but trying to work as a team to teach the children remotely.

DD has passed her placement and done well doing what was asked but it in no way replicated a proper placement.

She wont be in placements this term as she is back to university, not placement now. Although that will be predominately, if not all, online too.

We know similar has happened at at least 4 other universities where DD knows people doing the course.

My own primary school has SCITT students in and have done throughout, since March last year. We don't actually have many university students in, in normal years but also know our local university has also done remote placements.

The two PGCE students who lived in DD's flat also didnt have in person placements. Infact both went home in October as a result - one in England and one in Ireland. No idea how it has panned out for them, but they haven't returned.

From my perspective remote placement has been a waste of time tbh. DD had better actual work experience throughout sixth form and before than she had during the office teacher training this year.

I distinctly remember teaching students face-to-face at a university all through the autumn term.

Sadly not all universities and not all courses did this.
Some of DD's friends at other universities and other courses are still waiting for their first f2f session since they started.
Because of her course DD had some but very little. They haven't restarted in person yet.

Many Uni's have behaved disgracefully. We have now seen their true colours, they've been exposed for how they've treated students, what their real drive is.

Like GP's who've been unable to and still unable to do any f2f.
Or NHS physios, who won't touch any patient, but will treat them privately !

Plus useless Gavin.

And lack of leadership decision making from Boris.

Covid has highlighted all sorts of nonsense.

Oh how I loved my Uni days. I'm not even sure I want Ds1 to go now. How incredibly sad that is.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Parker231 what friends ? Ones he met as an undergraduate I assume. Something this years first years have not had the chance to do. So no friends to meet as they've never met anyone.
I really don't think some people understand the impact of spending a year alone in a room staring at a screen. Moved to new cities because told there would be blended learning. For most there was none. So stuck in pokey bedrooms alone and friendless. [/quote]
I know of a few students, via DD, in this kind of position.

DD fell lucky in that the two older post grads went home. Initially we were concerned she'd be living alone but actually i was for the best in the end as she was able to bubble with a large flat below of under grads and has made friends that way. She hasn't made friends on her course though as there hasn't really been any opportunity to do so. Talking to strangers online isnt really conducive to making new friends. Online works much better when its people you already know.

So DD has managed to make some friends and has gelled well enough to want to get a house together next year, etc.

Others haven't fallen lucky at all. DD knows friends who haven't gelled with their assigned flat mates, or where the halls are mainly empty so few people to meet. A lot of her friends haven't yet sorted accommodation for their second years because they don't really know anyone well enough to do so. Another who has stayed in our home town are moving into accommodation with an old school friend as they've not been able to make new friends on their courses.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista I thought so too. Called the other choices and they said planning all f2f - told them to get it in writing so they are emailing today. V sensible students talking with their feet. They want f2f so will go where it is being offered. [/quote]
I think Liverpool should be highly commended for their transparency l think ultimately that’s all students want. If universities come out and say what their policies are . Wether it is we will be operating in line with government policies so if face to face is available we will be providing it or it’s we are continuing with online for another term as we don’t want disruption or social distancing rules of X preclude use of lecture theatres so unlikely they will be available and halls of residence deferrals for a term are available. Students will feel they can make informed decisions and expectations are managed. The pandemic has gone on long enough that universities should now be aware of what they are capable of given specific scenarios. Students just need to be aware of this when making their choices. We have already heard up thread that some lecturers will be keeping certain online options as they see benefits which obviously suit certain students but not others. Students just need to be kept aware of this so they can make decisions based on their needs.
Education is not a one size fits all and each student will have a different agenda and requirement. As I said upthread (and was criticised for by lecturers) you cannot please everyone
Ultimately everyone is realistic about the situation and no one can predict what September will look like but universities will know what their broad strategy will be and with lockdown restrictions theoretically lifting fully in June they have plenty of time to assess the situation and come out with clear policies as oppose to a spurious blended learning statement which could mean anything

Agreed. Universities should hope for the best and plan for the worst.

Sneaking in online learning if things are normal is unacceptable. And HE staff claiming it’s what students want and it’s inclusive yada yada - absolute bollocks. Trying to justify a desire to wfh by presuming disabled students’ wishes is pretty darn cheesy.

Unis just shut the doors and locked everyone out in October

I'm calling this - it's bullshit.

And HE staff claiming it’s what students want and it’s inclusive yada yada - absolute bollocks. Trying to justify a desire to wfh by presuming disabled students’ wishes is pretty darn cheesy.

How many students have you spoken to this year?

Why are you so sure we all just want to wfh and can't be arsed to go onto campus?

I have close to 100 students across my courses and all but two asked for more online learning - I know my course isn't representative of all students/courses but it shows you don't know what you're talking about and just want to bash HE staff.
Incidentally, the other 6 universities that offer my course have had the same feedback.

Most of us are desperate to get back in campus. I know of a few of people who are suffering from pretty severe anxiety and stress due to wfh for a year. Don't assume you know what we're all thinking.

@MeltsAway

Unis just shut the doors and locked everyone out in October

I'm calling this - it's bullshit.

That's like the 'children have missed a year of school' screeches - hyperbole that does no-one any favours, because it is so easily refutable but makes those who work in schools and universities resentful.

@TheMerrickBoy

It's interesting how 'them's the breaks' seems to some people like a reasonable attitude for us to take to .... any student that's not their own kid, huh?

This is where you are wrong . We are an expat family living overseas. When my DD returns home in the summer she risks not being able to return back to uni if borders close. But I am a pragmatist. I would not expect the majority of students to be penalised by being deprived of face to face because of my DD (and others like her) that would be an insane proposition to penalise the majority and totally unacceptable. As I said up thread my DD has made the decision to study in the UK and this is the risk she takes in a pandemic situation and it is a situation we would be expected to handle and manage not the university. But interesting to see you made that assumption of me! Probably says more about your thinking than mine.

I know everyone here gave f2f last October but a lot didn't. And yes some did lock the doors. They took away the key cards to accommodation that was paid for and refused to let them in. Or in Manchester's case locked them in with fences.
And libraries were locked in many places from Oct. Many many students have not set foot on campus all year,

Yes. That includes DD. The teaching has been excellent and staff have gone above and beyond.

Given there is a pandemic, DD has no complaints. Spending this year getting a sound education is as constructive a way to spend her time as any.

(She has plenty of complaints about there being a pandemic, but does not blame thr University or its staff.)

I would add that DS in the States has been on line the whole time as well.

Thanks for the information on virtual TT placements, abraxan - agree that sounds absolutely useless, and compares very unfavourably with the SCITT experience. Feel very sorry for your daughter and her fellow students.

@Stirmecrazy - fair enough. I don't think I'm wrong to say there have been more posters saying that a first come, first served model is fine who aren't ex-pats though.

It's funny you know - I knew at the start of the autumn term, looking at the numbers, that there was probably going to come a point before Christmas where the only thing I was allowed to leave my house for was to be in an unventilated room with students - and I was right. In lockdown, apart from walks and food shops, all I was doing was teaching in airless rooms.

However my daughter's uni took a different tack, and she is one of those students who've had no on campus teaching all year. Now I'm aware that, like all parents, I'm hearing what she wants to tell me, so disclaimer there. But what seems to have been the most dispiriting thing for her is her peers never doing the set reading, logging in and then wandering off, refusing to engage with the tutor (and yeah obviously she's going to stress her sympathies with the tutor to me, because I am one - I'm not daft). She's never said she wishes she was on campus - only that it's really annoying when nobody will speak or do the reading.

I was perfectly happy to be paying her rent and fees for all of this - the teaching is there, but more students than you might realise are not accessing what's available to them.

but more students than you might realise are not accessing what's available to them.

'Twas ever thus, sadly ... They now have something to "blame" not just their own lack of engagement or discipline.

Yup.

. It's nice to think that perhaps students have a newfound appreciation of timetabled teaching and maybe levels of attendance will change in the future as a result. Looking for silver linings!

In terms of feedback, be careful there. Where I have been asked for feedback I have universally stated that the academic staff have done a brilliant job under the constraints of pandemic and lockdowns. Because they have, and I don’t want to see them penalised for the university’s decision to lock its doors. That does not mean I’m not very unhappy with being isolated at home, or thinking about quitting mid course because I can’t take much more of this. But I know it’s not the academic staff’s choice!

Did it occur to anyone that the reason they might not be doing the work was because a) they can't as IT is useless or (b) their mental health is rubbish. I really hope someone has checked on those young people.
If because they are lazy then kick them out, but if because this year has been tough then maybe offer them the chance to meet others to talk it through.
I find it hard to believe any student this year didn't want to meet people on their course in person. Yes they couldn't but now they can. One tutor at DDs Uni has booked outside at Spoons and has 100 students coming in 2 blocks to meet each other. The students are so excited. Humans !!!!

It occurs and is stated plenty, yes, and yes, there's plenty of checking in on both counts.

Lol at the idea that we'd be allowed to kick people out for being lazy though!

Did it occur to anyone that the reason they might not be doing the work was because a) they can't as IT is useless or (b) their mental health is rubbish. I really hope someone has checked on those young people.

Of course we check on students that don't attend or hand in work. We have people monitoring attendance, a personal tutor system and a well being team. We know what we're doing!!
Why is the default to assume we're shit and don't care.

If because they are lazy then kick them out

Haha we can't do that. Sometimes I wish we could.

@mumsneedwine

Did it occur to anyone that the reason they might not be doing the work was because a) they can't as IT is useless or (b) their mental health is rubbish. I really hope someone has checked on those young people. If because they are lazy then kick them out, but if because this year has been tough then maybe offer them the chance to meet others to talk it through. I find it hard to believe any student this year didn't want to meet people on their course in person. Yes they couldn't but now they can. One tutor at DDs Uni has booked outside at Spoons and has 100 students coming in 2 blocks to meet each other. The students are so excited. Humans !!!!

Why on earth would you think we don't do that? How bizarre.

A lot of people know a lot about our jobs, it seems.