Students full return to campus

[DoNotBringLulu]

This came up on my Facebook feed:

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/apr/13/university-campuses-in-england-will-not-reopen-until-mid-may

If this is true, Boris et al have some explaining to do.

I assume none of the Uni staff on here have their own children affected by this because then they'd see just how shit it is

@mumsneedwine, yes, I do, as I've said more than once.

@TheMerrickBoy

It's interesting how 'them's the breaks' seems to some people like a reasonable attitude for us to take to .... any student that's not their own kid, huh?

Yep. And those accusing us of being unable to think outside the box are unable to comprehend that universities do more than teach 18 year olds.

But they also do teach 18 year olds. And they seem to be back of the queue when it comes to planning.
@TheMerrickBoy so you appreciate how rubbish it's been and that the students just want some chance to meet each other in an academic setting ??

But they also do teach 18 year olds. And they seem to be back of the queue when it comes to planning.

In your opinion..... that's not my experience across the board. Yes there are some examples of poor practice (which should be complained about) but it is really unfair to say that's true of all universities and it's also unfair to blame them for things that are out of their control.

I teach a module on higher education policy and practice so have a real interest in this. There have been some wonderful examples of innovative practice and teaching

@DelBocaVista I'm not questioning the teaching or the effort to make things work. But as an expert you must know that learning in a bedroom alone is not best practice. Otherwise we'd only have on line Unis all the time.

It keeps being said on here that lectures will remain in line because some people can't get to them. But most can and want to - surely the majority should be catered for ? And if postgrads like on line then fine, keep it there. But 18-21 year olds want to learn to together with a human in front of them. Like we all had the chance to do.

@TheMerrickBoy

It's interesting how 'them's the breaks' seems to some people like a reasonable attitude for us to take to .... any student that's not their own kid, huh?

No I think universities should be providing services inline with the majority not trying to please everyone and as a result restricting service to lowest level and effectively penalising everyone. As already said if the government reduces social distancing laws and deems cinemas , theatres etc safe then universities have no justification for online as they would be inline with government guidelines. I actually believe universities would actually be doing students a disservice from not providing a more effective learning tool if available and I think we have already established there are significant benefits from face to face learning. What worries me is there seems to be a strong reluctance from lecturers to give up lectures online even if the possibility of safe face to face lecture is available. Obviously universities are within their right to choose how they present their lectures but if this is the case I believe they have a responsibility to declare this to students before they invest in accommodation and course fees. I think what is needed is complete transparency from universities about what they will offer even if regulations and guidelines are completely lifted so students can make informed decisions.

@mumsneedwine

But they also do teach 18 year olds. And they seem to be back of the queue when it comes to planning. *@TheMerrickBoy* so you appreciate how rubbish it's been and that the students just want some chance to meet each other in an academic setting ??

I think everyone feels like they're at the back of the queue when they're not getting what they want. I think academics, postgrads, professional service staff, mature students.... could all make a case that they're the ones nobody gives a shit about.

I think it's been a shit year for everyone - I'm keenly aware of what my kids, both the student and the graduate, have missed out on. My student child has had a different experience from the one I've been offering, for sure, and yes, I've been paying rent etc all the way through. But I would tell her university how they should do it differently, and I also wouldn't argue she's had a worse time than any one else this year, particularly.

Abraxam, how does a virtual teacher training placement work?

Intrigued by this as I know someone who is director of a secondary SCITT. Their trainees' placements this year have not been virtual, other than in the sense that they had to deliver live online lessons during full lockdown.

Some trainees actually volunteered to help in school during lockdown, supervising key workers' children etc., and that was approved.

As far as I understand it, staff and mentor meetings are virtual, as are the training sessions, but the trainees have all been on site, in their placement schools, when schools have been open.

Astounded tbh that there could be another way of doing things! Are these students not allowed into their placement schools even now, when schools are fully open? Is this university based teacher training?

I don't know how I can be clearer about this, but one last try -

I like lecturing in a lecture theatre. I miss it. I look forward to being able to do it again

I think if there is one thing that comes back more slowly, it might be big lectures in lecture theatres.

As an aside, I do wish some of you could see the attendance figures for on campus stuff, during last semester but also pre-Covid. They're not all as mad keen to be in a room with us as you seem to think, you know.

But as an expert you must know that learning in a bedroom alone is not best practice. Otherwise we'd only have on line Unis all the time.

Nobody has says it's best practice but we literally had no choice. Lots of us have said we delivered on campus until we were told by the government to move online.

The government has screwed the sector on so many levels - blame them.

If you feel your university has provided a poor experience then I'd encourage you to complain.

It keeps being said on here that lectures will remain in line because some people can't get to them. But most can and want to - surely the majority should be catered for ? And if postgrads like on line then fine, keep it there. But 18-21 year olds want to learn to together with a human in front of them. Like we all had the chance to do.

People aren't saying that though because we simply don't know! Every academic I know is planning for a range of scenarios. I've booked my usual rooms on campus for September in the hope we'll be back to normal but it would be remiss of me to not also plan for blended and online.
If the government tells us we must continue with social distancing then we may need to keep some things online because we don't have the space of the staff to offer all teaching on campus while maintaining social distancing. There's not much else we can do 🤷🏼‍♀️

@TheMerrickBoy thank you. I know you want to be back because teaching is so much easier and more fun in person.
I don't want to worry now about what has happened and who has had it worse. I think focusing on next year and making sure it's as normal as possible, and as normal as the rest of society is the important thing. I do think the mental health of our young people needs to be a priority and this means getting them together to socialise and learn. It was deemed vital for schools to be back because of this so next should be Unis. We are training future scientists who have not been in a lab, engineers who have not touched the equipment, doctors who have only done on line anatomy, vets who haven't touched an animal. Last year this was necessary but next year it is not.

@DelBocaVista Had to happen, but not any more. And the government has said it's ok to not socially distance after June 12th. That guidance applies to everyone and every sector.

Let's hope UCU crawl into a hole and that University is everything it should be for everyone from Sept.

What worries me is there seems to be a strong reluctance from lecturers to give up lectures online even if the possibility of safe face to face lecture is available.

Have you not read the numerous posts in this thread from academics saying how much they long to be back teaching on campus??
There is not a strong reluctance from lecturers to continue online. People are just making shit up now.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista Had to happen, but not any more. And the government has said it's ok to not socially distance after June 12th. That guidance applies to everyone and every sector. [/quote]
Which is why all universities I work with are planning for a more normal experience next year BUT current guidance still states we much social distance on campus.
We can't say anything for certain until we get updated guidance. As a sector we'd love some clarity- it's not easy for us to plan with so much uncertainty.

I think young people as a demographic have had it the worst. I have had fun experiences. I have met people. I have worked with others. I have had fun. Not everything was a barrel of laughs, but at least I got to participate in things in real life .

We are expecting young people to suck up a sea change which might include experiencing university from your bedroom and working in a job also from your bedroom.

Online and wfh does indeed suit some people very well indeed. Notably older people who can see all those student/workplace experiences in their rearview mirror. Classic I’m all right, jack.

Students have always been germy. It strikes me that some staff (indeed on this thread) are thinking, “Bullseye! Wfh by the back door!” I can keep my career and due to “safety” I can avoid nasty filthy students.

And the government haven't said for certain that won't need to social distance from June. That's the plan and part of the roadmap but nothing is certain yet.

It strikes me that some staff (indeed on this thread) are thinking, “Bullseye! Wfh by the back door!” I can keep my career and due to “safety” I can avoid nasty filthy students.

Which posters are they because that's not what I've read.

You're just making stuff up now

It’s the government who will decide not individuals Uni’s or lecturers. Every generation has in some way struggled with the pandemic but this generation have not had it worse than others. DS has done the majority of his Masters at home online but he’s just got on with it, done online meet ups with friends and met one friend at a time for a run each day.

@DelBocaVista nothing is ever certain I'm education 🤷‍♀️. But planning should follow the roadmap for now. Which says no social distancing required. So this should be plan A for September.

And my DD had v full lecture theatres - youngest has never had the chance to try one.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista nothing is ever certain I'm education 🤷‍♀️. But planning should follow the roadmap for now. Which says no social distancing required. So this should be plan A for September.

And my DD had v full lecture theatres - youngest has never had the chance to try one. [/quote]
As I've said many times. That's what we're planning for!!! But we also have plan B and Plan C.....

@Parker231 what friends ? Ones he met as an undergraduate I assume. Something this years first years have not had the chance to do. So no friends to meet as they've never met anyone.
I really don't think some people understand the impact of spending a year alone in a room staring at a screen. Moved to new cities because told there would be blended learning. For most there was none. So stuck in pokey bedrooms alone and friendless.

@DelBocaVista that's great if it's plan A. A lot of comments have said that lectures are planned to be on line still - in fact Liverpool have come right out and said as much. So 4 of my year 13s now choosing elsewhere 🤷‍♀️.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista that's great if it's plan A. A lot of comments have said that lectures are planned to be on line still - in fact Liverpool have come right out and said as much. So 4 of my year 13s now choosing elsewhere 🤷‍♀️.[/quote]
Good for them.

@DelBocaVista I thought so too. Called the other choices and they said planning all f2f - told them to get it in writing so they are emailing today. V sensible students talking with their feet. They want f2f so will go where it is being offered.