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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Students full return to campus

507 replies

DoNotBringLulu · 13/04/2021 17:43

This came up on my Facebook feed:

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/apr/13/university-campuses-in-england-will-not-reopen-until-mid-may

If this is true, Boris et al have some explaining to do.

OP posts:
Newgirls · 14/04/2021 10:33

If uni lecturers need support from parents on here with petitions etc please shout. This is not a great situation for anyone involved and I agree it shows contempt for the uni system.

GCAcademic · 14/04/2021 10:37

So get them back. Tell the stupid government to shove their guidance. My DD can go to the pub but not see her tutor f2f. Maybe lecturers snd seminars should be held in pub gardens

You want us to break the law? It's not guidance, it's law. And only 6 can meet in pub gardens.

I know you have a deep-seated hatred of university staff but surely you can see that we cannot break the law. Students are not the only ones whose mental health is through the floor, btw. Most of us want to get back to normal.

GCAcademic · 14/04/2021 10:39

@Newgirls

If uni lecturers need support from parents on here with petitions etc please shout. This is not a great situation for anyone involved and I agree it shows contempt for the uni system.
University vice-chancellors have been lobbying the government to allow students to return. The government doesn't give a shit about what academics think (it despises us). VCs and students are best placed to lobby for a return. I've already signed student petitions about this.
CupcakesK · 14/04/2021 10:40

I'm really afraid for a lot of universities. Students have a point about getting at least a partial refund on their tuition fees, but this is going to cripple some unis. Where is the government support? It should be central government providing money to unis to provide refunds. They've supported everyone else, what about students? But I guess most

TheFallenMadonna · 14/04/2021 10:43

My son's last exam is 17 May.

Helleboring · 14/04/2021 11:04

Where are the politicians to explain the reasoning/data behind this?

Invisible- because all the data points to letting them back now

I’ve listened to lots of radio coverage this morning - no Gavin Williamson, no Michelle Donelan to be found anywhere. They are supposed to be responsible for Education.. what are we paying them for if they are not accountable?!

mumsneedwine · 14/04/2021 11:06

@GCAcademic not sure where I'm blaming University staff - I'm blaming University bosses. Those VCs earning hundreds of thousands of pounds who could lobby government to change the 'law' (it's actually guidance - otherwise schools would be breaking the law daily).
I'm angry that some staff have told my kids they'll likely continue on line in Sept because 'no one has complained'. I'm angry at the person who told my DD she preferred working from home and would not be providing f2f tutorials next year as they were an inconvenience to her 😳.
I am angry that some Uni staff keep banging on about the quality of on line learning which, however amazing it is, is no substitute for being in person with your peers. Returning is about our kids mental health which is not great, having been isolated in their rooms for a year.
So I don't hate Uni staff, I hate the apathy that means our kids are being let down. Yet again

TrainWhistleChoir · 14/04/2021 11:13

@bestbefore it's to do with perceived risk / lack of safety on campus, here.

TheMerrickBoy · 14/04/2021 11:14

I will still offer tutorials online next year as well as f2f: I think they've been one of the revelations of this year - students realising they can have a one-to-one chat with us without having to come onto campus is something I think lots of people might want to hang on to. Tutorials, not seminars, though. Online tutorials mean it's marginally less frustrating when they book and then don't show up, too.

I don't think anywhere will remain wholly online next year unless something unexpected happens, though. I do think students are very keen for us to hang onto recorded lectures they can watch at their leisure, pause, rewind, etc, though, so I think that might stay.

I've been really impressed with lots of my students this semester who have done very well with online learning - probably because it's been clearcut and consistent with the national lockdown since Jan - they've not been continually unsure about what's happening next or whether it's fair. They've also had significantly more contact time and support than in a normal year, to be honest. And actually I think that coming back for two weeks after easter to a different form of engagement would have been quite disruptive to their learning, so I think this is the right call- just wish the government had been honest and open about it much much sooner.

Online learning is not necessarily inferior to sitting far apart in a room where you can't hear anyone properly because of masks, can't use handouts, can't have group or small group discussions, and have to clean your desk down at the beginning and end of every session.

mumsneedwine · 14/04/2021 11:23

At my DDs Unis lectures have always been recorded and available on line to watch again.They still would rather have them in person though and rewatch if needed.
I hope all Uni staff are asking first years what they would prefer and not just guessing, because 'no one has complained'. My DD would like to talk to her tutor in person - she is fed up of being on a screen all day.
Socialisation is one of the big joys of Uni life and this has been totally removed. Returning to normal is not about quality it's about meeting your course mates, discussing stuff, making friends. All the things we all took for granted. Why can we not just be back to normal in September (like schools will be I'm sure) ? Unis need to say now what their plans are so year 13s can make decisions. Not decide the day after they sign their accommodation contracts again. And students can make decisions about staying on their courses or doing much cheaper on line ones instead.

GCAcademic · 14/04/2021 11:24

Those VCs earning hundreds of thousands of pounds who could lobby government to change the 'law' (it's actually guidance - otherwise schools would be breaking the law daily).

The VCs have been lobbying the government. That is a fact. And lockdown rules are law, not guidance. Otherwise shops and pubs could have been open all this time. Do you think they would have followed the rules and put themselves out of business in many cases if it had just been guidance (some tried to open and were fined)? I dislike the culture of overpaid university VCs as much as anyone, but I can't see that they can be expected to break the law.

Your DD's lecturers sound awful, btw, and if the problem is that no one has complained, then she should get complaining. However, I will be splitting my office hours between online and f2f next year, as students seem to prefer the ease of online meetings and have made much more use of our office hours than they have done when they had to trek onto campus.

TheMerrickBoy · 14/04/2021 11:28

I think that most places will be assuming a full return in September - possibly with the inclusion of some of the things we've learned are good (availability of online tutorials for eg). Obviously nothing is certain in any area of life at the momennt, but I'd be surprised if that wasn't what most VCs aren't expecting and planning for.

TheMerrickBoy · 14/04/2021 11:30

mumsneedwine If it's not really about the learning, though, and more about the socialising, students can just go back to the universities they're at now and see their friends according to new lockdown relaxations anyway, so maybe it's not such a problem after all?

mumsneedwine · 14/04/2021 11:30

@GCAcademic complain to who ? First years don't know anyone on their courses so it's hard to complain on your own. And where do they go - no one has told her how to have an opinion. The quality has been good but she wants to be with her coursemates - why is this so hard to understand? I'm not just talking about my own children but the many students I know as a teacher. Several have dropped out already, some are taking a year out due to mental health issues and they are all fed up.
My DD spends over 8 hours a day watching stuff on her computer and now has an eye issue because of straining them. She is not alone as the optician said they have seen loads of her age group coming in with eye problems more associated with the elderly.
It seems she is right in saying on line will continue next year as 2 Uni staff on here have already said they prefer it. Poor first years next year look like they'll never get to meet their tutor in person again. How can it not be acknowledged that human interaction is so so important. Relationships do not build over zoom.

mumsneedwine · 14/04/2021 11:32

@TheMerrickBoy what friends ???? How have they met these mythical people when they have never set foot on campus. If you like your flat mates that's great but the first years have not been together to meet.

TheMerrickBoy · 14/04/2021 11:36

mums fair point if she's not been there at all or met anyone, sorry.

I don't think anyone on here has said they prefer online - I said I'd continue to offer some online as well as on campus tutorials because students seem to find them useful. ANd online is better than the kind of on campus teaching we had to do in the Autumn - not better than on campus full stop.

However - it's important to be clear that no matter what staff prefer, that will have no impact at all. VCs will decide based on £ what happens - our opinions and preference will not be a part of those decisions.

We know human interaction is important - and our eyes are strained too! - and I don't think you need to worry that there won't ever be any again. Unless some godawful variant appears, obviously!

mumsneedwine · 14/04/2021 11:38

Guidance, same as for schools.

Students full return to campus
GCAcademic · 14/04/2021 11:42

GCAcademic complain to who ? First years don't know anyone on their courses so it's hard to complain on your own. And where do they go - no one has told her how to have an opinion.

All universities have a complaints system. The details will be published on the website, very clearly. That is the formal complaints system. She can also raise the issues with the staff-student committee (which would be anonymous if she so wished) and with the head of department.

I sympathise with the eye problems. I spend 14 hours a day online now have developed blepharitis and can't seem to shake it off. Not all university staff want to continue like this.

mumsneedwine · 14/04/2021 11:44

@TheMerrickBoy thank you. I know it's tough for staff too and no one wants to stay like this. I just wish a little more was being done now for the students to meet and that when parents complain they are not attacked - we are all wanting what's best for the students I'm sure. Ive not seen one VC on tv complaining or any of them on social media putting the 'get back now' message. Hopefully they will start.
My own are doing ok and my first year has been lucky and done a few practical bits in person. Her Uni are trying to do more this term to get the kids together which is why I get cross because others could do similar. It's within the guidance. Many of my DDs friends have not even been in their Uni cities but at home in their bedrooms, alone and struggling. Most are going back just so they can try and meet people, but they have no idea how.

GCAcademic · 14/04/2021 11:45

Guidance, same as for schools.

The "guidance" is for the return to campus, where it is allowed to happen. Not for lockdown. All sectors which have been locked down have been done so under Covid legislation, and can only unlock in accordance with the government's roadmap.

TheMerrickBoy · 14/04/2021 11:48

Mums I heard a VC on the radio this morning and saw another on local news yesterday - honestly, they really are doing this!

I'd be gutted to think we'd never be back - and I think it'll be really emotional, in a good way, to be back to normal. I can't wait to give a lecture in person again! But I'm also very aware of how unpleasant and difficult it was on campus under the restrictions in the autumn, and how well online has gone this term, and I wouldn't want to downplay that.

mumsneedwine · 14/04/2021 11:49

@GCAcademic thank you. Her Uni have actually tried really hard and she will be going back to her sports next week. Strange she can play netball and swim with people but not learn with them.
I'll tell her friends how to complain as some have had awful provision - one did try and told her tutor how hard she was finding it. Was told 'tough, don't like it then leave. Oh and I mark your exams so think about that before complaining'. Where does she go with that !!! She's 18 and now has a dilemma that if she complains she will fail, and it's her word against her tutor. I've told her to ask for a new tutor !

Helleboring · 14/04/2021 11:52

*TheMerrickBoy

mumsneedwine If it's not really about the learning, though, and more about the socialising, students can just go back to the universities they're at now and see their friends according to new lockdown relaxations anyway, so maybe it's not such a problem after all?*

Are you really a university lecturer? Do you really not know that large numbers of students have not been allowed back into their university- owned accommodation because of government guidelines? They have no option to just return and see their friends

It has been so frustrating seeing so little media coverage of the effects on this group prior to yesterday’s announcement. I kept hearing people say ‘they are all back anyway’ what’s the problem.

To hear a university teacher say it ... no wonder they have been forgotten.

I despair.

GCAcademic · 14/04/2021 11:54

I'll tell her friends how to complain as some have had awful provision - one did try and told her tutor how hard she was finding it. Was told 'tough, don't like it then leave. Oh and I mark your exams so think about that before complaining'. Where does she go with that !!! She's 18 and now has a dilemma that if she complains she will fail, and it's her word against her tutor. I've told her to ask for a new tutor !

That is extremely unprofessional. Not to say worrying in terms of their processes, as most exams are meant to be marked anonymously. The staff-student committee is a good mechanism to complain or raise issues because the student rep can anonymise the complaints and actively seek views from cohort to relay to the department. The department also has to show that they have responded to concerns.