Is Oxford only for rich families?

[Foslady]

My dd is taking GCSe’s Next year and her school are having various universities in to talk to the pupils. When the Oxford representatives came they mentioned that due to circumstances for one of the colleges there was a very generous bursary you can apply for. This particular college has the course that dd wants to study and now she’s thinking ‘why not?’. I want to support her in all her choices, academically she is quite gifted, and yes, there is a huge time period before university application, but I don’t know if we are the ‘right’ kind of people for Oxford. Up until recently I was a lone parent on a low wage. I now am with my partner but money is still tight (and to be honest if she was awarded the bursary it would be amazing , a massive help). I don’t want to ruin her dreams but at the same time, in reality, are they feasible or am I just kidding myself?

But then again if a pp classes Margaret Thatcher, as comimg from a work class background, her father owned 2, yes 2, grocery shops and was a prominent local councillor, then I suppose to MN and Oxford they are accepting poor and disadvantaged kids.
That was me. I thought it was just one shop - the one with the plaque on it. They weren't poor but equally they were self made and certainly not posh, lived above the shop etc. All depends where you think working class begins and ends. That's a whole other thread. You can be working class and still a councillor you know.

If everyone gets A*s these days, what are Oxbridge looking for on top of that and how can any pupil prove they have that extra intellect that is supposedly necessary?
(Not that everyone does get solid As. I've known a few private school pupils who got distinctly average A levels over the past few years. They've all done well - got into good enough unis to do courses that interest them, but As aren't handed out like candy.)

Oxford and Cambridge are for anyone that is bright and motivated enough. You should absolutely encourage her!

@Clavinova
That wasn't my words that was from a quote from the warden of Wadham College, Oxford Lord (Ken) McDonald. But I am sure him and the head of Lady Margaret Hall college (the only Oxbridge college to offer a foundation course), know nothing about increasing diversity in their colleges, lets leave it to favour private and rich people.
Mateysmum
Google is your friend, Margaret Thatcher was born in 1925, owning property and especially 2 shops was firmly middle class, then, most working class families living in either slums or council houses. most worked for others and very few attend grammar schools and even fewer attended Oxford, most where working by 14.
Shop owners where Middle Class.

2Boys Dorothy Wadham said in terms that she wanted Wadham college to be restricted to students from Devon and Somerset. She specifically said she didn't want anyone from St Paul's or similar but she said nothing about those from the North, whatever the type of school - but Devon and Somerset does kind of imply it wasn't intended to be a college for them :)

I thought all schools and colleges and LEAs had Oxbridge colleges they are linked to? My DS’s college is linked to Sidney Sussex and I can’t remember the Oxford one.

Ok 2boys Lincoln college visited Dd’s school AND ALL THE OTHER SCHOOLS IN THE SURROUNDING AREA because - surprise surprise - we are in Lincolnshire and there’s financial help for Lincolnshire pupils.
If they hadn’t gone, dd would never have thought to have had a chance of going to Oxford, and unless YOU tell the teachers that you are interested they don’t give you the help they can offer. So by your logic they shouldn’t have gone so my dd didn’t realise it was an option .
I started this thread to see if it was a viable option. I’m sorry you and your young adult have had the experience you had, but as I said previously, Lincoln College are doing all the schools in the Lincolnshire area to publicise the option to go there isn’t just for the richer families as I had mistakenly thought.
As you yourself have said your son is thriving at his university - it sounds like he made a great choice and God willing he will get outstanding results and excel in his chosen career path, as we ALL want for our offspring- and no one has made any negative comments about that. All I have seen from you is negativity because my dd has expressed an interest in somewhere she thought was impossible because Oxford dared to go to a Grammar school AS WELL AS the local secondary’s and accadamys.
As previous posters have said, maybe the staff member who is responsible in your sons school should look to get feed back, maybe even talk to other schools who have been successful in getting OxBridge places to find out what areas need strengthening and work at that.
I’m sorry to rant, but I guess this is what you get when you dare to mention the word ‘Grammar’......

And why wait for a Uni to ask to come round, is he inviting them in to the School? Does he just invite the Uni’s in who he thinks the pupils stand a chance with? Does he invite any in? So he look at what summer schools are available? Does he arrange term time visits for pupils? How many of the teachers help with personal statements and how much time do they give? How much mentoring happens between upper and lower 6th?
All these can make a massive difference - and obviously do

Sorry, ranting again

I must say that I am a bit disappointed by the 'not for the likes of us' fears.
At my DD's 6th form college it was her tutor who told her this. He said it was 'unheard of' for any of their students to apply for Oxbridge, whilst shaking his head. This has made her more determined to apply and she's counting down the days till the Uniq applications open

Actually not that sorry - just as you are being proactive for your son and his future so am I about my dd’s - maybe we have more in common than first meets the eye!

.

I like your dd’s Attitude Pickwick everything crossed she gets her Uniq place

And once again, many, many thanks to those who have had experience and have, helped, encouraged and advised

2boys is, sadly, a chip on the shoulder Northerner! Unfortunately there seem to be people who always seek to blame others rather than grasp the opportunities out there. The reason some areas don’t get DC to Oxbridge is either that they just are not bright enough (intelligence isn’t spread out evenly geographically), go to failing schools or that they don’t apply.

Very many bright DC have bright parents. Obviously there is a “first in the family” situation for some but they are far fewer than those with a history of higher education in the family. Therefore DC of vets and medics seem to have an ability to follow on in those professions. They have an aptitude. There is a similar thing going on with academia. You follow the family trend. If you have parents who have found school very difficult and have passed few exams, if any, is it statistically likely their children will be Oxbridge material?

My LA has information on the population with higher education qualifications in the council wards. The higher the % with higher education, the better their children do at school and then at university. However, every help is given to the others such as PP money but your upbringing and nature will play a part. Parents and great schools can help but blaming everyone in the South or posh people in grammar schools is just ludicrous. Also, parents maybe need to educate children to be accepting of other people who don’t sound like them rather than label them. Would you do that with Nigerians and Israelis? No. You would not.

Why would anyone be worried about what some people talk about? Horses? My friends who live in Lincolnshire have a horse! They are to be seen everywhere in the uk! How bizarre that this was a barrier to developing a conversation about something else. Feeling out of place is all about self esteem. This seems to be a major issue with some young people and parents can help by ensuring this is tackled earlier. You cannot blame others for their interests! Talk about yours!!!!

Your post is incredibly offensive BubblesBuddy.

Unfortunately there seem to be people who always seek to blame others rather than grasp the opportunities out there.

Thing is, what about the really bright kids who are at failing schools? I've just got my DS out of a shite one, it's only taken 3 years on the waiting list for a half decent one no matter how hard they work, they will never get a clean sweep of 9s/A*s, then never even attempt A-levels let alone Uni. Then what do they do? What a waste of intelligence. It's not their fault, so who do we blame?

Someone from Oxford also visited my DDs’ school, and the four pupils who got all As and A*s at GCSE and were on course for AAA and higher at A level were invited down to Oxford (Brasenose I believe) for an overnight visit. This is a school in a disadvantaged area with low results and I know other local schools received the same. They are making a certain degree of effort to reach out from what I can see.

Foslady sorry to hijack your thread here but I feel I need to respond...

Bubbles maybe I’m wrong, but it feels like you’re being passive aggressively very critical of my DD for something she can’t help - those were just examples of things she has identified as unfamiliar and intimidating - and given their general reputations and degree of familiarity to her, it’s not surprising that she found them odd. At a uni of York taster day one girl she spoke to was equally fascinated by DD’s school and upbringing, and accent. Yes she does have low self esteem regarding her background and identity, and that is partly due to her upbringing but also very much promoted by society. That’s not her fault and she shouldn’t be criticised for it. And it wouldn’t be solved by throwing her into a place she identified she didn’t feel comfortable in - her English teacher had a very similar background and had to drop out of Oxford after a term because she struggled socially, as did our family friend a few years ago.

It’s all very well saying “just talk about your interests” when you’re not an 18 year old who feels intimidated by the peers they’re interacting with (due to society and representation, not due to the peers themselves of course). It’s a lot harder to actually do when you are.

I am trying, and have spent the past 13 years trying to help my DD build confidence. She has applied to some very aspirational universities as well as normal ones - Oxbridge was just a step too far socially and for now, that’s okay. She’s only 19. Plenty of time to learn how to socialise up and develop her sense of self.

And of course horses arent regional but they are expensive - we don’t know anyone who owns a horse, or could realistically afford to. On her Oxford trip DD met three horse owners... it was a social circle very removes from the one she is accustomed to.

How is it offensive? If you don’t know what the problems are, how can you help young people when they encounter situations that make them feel second class when they are not? Better to know and prepare, then be intimidated.

You suggest that people in some regions are not as bright as people in other regions. That is untrue and unfair.

Yes, Pancake. I do understand many people don’t own horses. But the fact some people do isn’t remotely threatening or exclusive. I think you are talking about a problem that is more to do with confidence. Even if three people are talking about horses, the vast majority don’t have horses! The skill is to talk to the others that have something in common with you rather than be intimidated by horse owners who probably had no idea your DD thought their conversation was beyond her. It would be so much better for DD if she could take different conversations in her stride. Nearly everyone meets people who are not like them but you have to make an effort to have a conversation. I think this is why people stay local for university. It’s the easy route. Language, colloquial sayings and thoughts are familiar.

I don’t believe society puts down an accent now. That’s history. Parents need to get over this and teach children that they are as good as anyone else! That means giving as broader an education as possible so normal isn’t just local. It could mean art appreciation, being well read, being interested in music - anything that you can talk about. Even going horse racing! It makes life easier if DCs can do this and not think others are odd or intimidating. I bet the horse owners had no idea their conversation had such an effect. I didn’t intend to be passive aggressive but I genuinely don’t understand why some people live in their bubble but criticise others who do the same just because they appear to have more money. By the way, ex racehorses are often free!

I have an accent and I am definitely still judged for it so you are talking rubbish. Do you realise that even if a horse is free chances are there wouldn’t be enough money to pay for it’s food? Do you know that food banks exist in this country?

It would be so much better for DD if she could take different conversations in her stride.

Yes, it would. But she can’t, and that isn’t her fault. I know she’s got a lot further to go, but she’s come a long way and I’m immensely proud of her for that.

She does have a lot of that on her side (as I said, I’m a teacher and went to grammar school, we’re quite mc) - she plays an instrument, I’ve taken her to local galleries and to the ones in London and Cornwall and our house is full of books. But I’m not stupid - she wouldn’t have benefited from any of that if she hadn’t been adopted by our family, and I’m confident she wouldn’t have done as well as she has in her biological family’s environment (not just because of damage). Your posts feel dismissive and minimise the disadvantages DC have to overcome. Just because their parents don’t take them to these things and instill that sense of confidence in them it shouldn’t rule out a whole strata of education - but unfairly, it often does.

And we can agree to disagree on accent representation. One of our city’s local MPs gets torn to shreds by the media for her accent/how she speaks (“not speaking properly”). And as she’s been mentioned on this thread - Margaret Thatcher changed her accent (and voice tone) to assert authority and get to where she was...

Also free horses - maybe. The space to stable them? The equipment, the food? Definitely not free...

DDs are also lucky that they get to go on holiday every year (even if it isn’t abroad), they’re lucky that I take them to NT live broadcasts, to see shows and plays at the theatre, to museums. We pay for extra curriculars, we pay for school trips, we buy sport equipment and art equipment and books. We encourage them to go to school every day and do everything we can to support that. Their biological family couldn’t and wouldn’t have done any of that and maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt they’d have come out with the grades they’ve both produced and the confidence to apply to good universities (even if not Oxbridge).

Would that have made them less deserving of a place at a top university?