The best course/University for a Maths degree.

[Mel2Mel]

My DS will be starting his As levels next year. He is a capable mathematician and highly motivated.
I would really appreciate your advice on the best University for him to study Maths and what are the differences between the courses from one University to another.
Thank you very much in advance

Sorry I am doing many things at the same time

The UKMT has papers for extension. Subject extension and acceleration are not mutually exclusive. It's fun to do both. It's not a crime to do both. And other things, too.

It's never been explained to me why one has to choose one or the other. Meanwhile, DC learn that they have a right to explore where they choose. We are all in bliss due to our ignorance of the right way to do things and the right place to be taught them. I hope that your son will delight in his explorations, Mel.

Thank you maryso, your kind words are very much appreciated.

My son has been doing some of problems on NRICH and I find him from time to time following the MIT and Stanford courses.
He was beaming after the Open day @ Cambridge last Saturday. He was happy to know that it will be possible for him to pursue his love for maths one day plus attend any lecture in any subject he feels like and do any sport he wants.

Mel2Mel What surprises most is when some manage to get a first from Cambridge to become private tutors. I've had this conversation with my DH this morning and to go through all that hurdle just to become a tutor

Sorry, I find this comment hugely insulting and ill informed.

I have a first class degree in my subject from a RG university, I also have a PhD from a different (top 2) RG university, I have a list of publications longer than your arm, I'm on the editorial boards of several international peer-reviewed journal, I was a senior lecturer at a RG university for a decade, I have supervised over 20 PhD students to successful completion of their own PhDs and line-managed several post-docs and now I run a private tuition business. I give private tuition and I also employ others.

I don't do it because I wanted a low pressure job - I actually work from 9am-9pm 6 days per week and this year have had 2 days off (a result of dp going into hospital, not wanting to swan round the golf course). I do it because I enjoy my work. I see huge differences in both attainment and confidence of students I work with, I see students where the school system is failing them, or who have been pushed out of the school system for a number of different reasons (health, behaviour, bullying to name a few). I get far more satisfaction out of my work now than I ever did as a University academic - that is why I choose to do this job, and btw, the reason I can work such long hours without feeling exhausted by it is precisely because I love what I do. Your attitude of "just" being a private tutor is both insulting and snobbish at best.

Thank you Magrat. I felt I had done something wrong yesterday by suggesting tutoring was an acceptable career with good prospects, and indeed something that might really suit some.

Oddly this was discussed last week. A friend was telling me a romantic story about a friend who had found 'lurve' at an academic conference. Should she give up her good academic job overseas to move to an English University town. We both decided that tutoring at a private sith form college would give her an immediate income and keep her hand in teaching wise, whilst giving her a degree of flexibility to try to restart her academic/research career in a new country. She would not be alone. I know another academic who is keeping up high level research in collaboration with academics in her home country whilst holding down a pretty ordinary teaching job at a not very well regarded new University.

I also felt a bit got at by
First, I would like to see the outcome of the Westminster type of schooling on the average poor DC. Most of them were tutored and are still tutored!!!

I don't think many were tutored. DS never was. Good teaching meant he enjoyed maths and got good grades. However it did not/could not turn him into a mathematician. That's why Universities use MAT and STEP. Well taught, reasonably bright and diligent students can get good grades at A level. Top Universities will want to then sift out the ones with real aptitude.

MelI wanted to comment earlier too, about your comment on tutoring but bit my tongue not to say anything, however I feel its is your ignorance and snobbery that jarred with me the most, like magrat I attended a well regarded university achieved a 1st. I taught for 15 years subsequently became a deputy head teacher, but now I tutor I am not ashamed of what I do. I know you are extremely proud of your DS, he sounds incredibly clever. I hope he wins his place to Cambridge. However, I do hope you don't project your own perception, ideas of the types of jobs befitting of a Cambridge graduate.

May I remind all those testosterone filled, rage road type respondents of the precision of my earlier comments What surprises most is when some manage to get a first from Cambridge to become private tutors. I've had this conversation with my DH this morning and to go through all that hurdle just to become a tutor and I totally agree with you on the enjoyment factor. My advice to my DC is always to go for what makes them happy and are keen to do it even for free. Tutoring is not a usual career path and that made me wonder....I hope they are doing it out of enjoyment

What I have NOT said is :
1- Private tuition is a bad thing.
2- Setting up a private tuition business is a bad thing.
3- Doing private tuition after a career in mainstream academia is a bad thing.
4- Doing private tuition alongside research is a bad thing.
5- Doing private tuition out of enjoyment is a bad thing.
6- Doing private tuition out of personal satisfaction is a bad thing.

What puzzled me is why there are numerous individuals out there in their 20s who have spent years studying hard through a demanding Tripos plus a masters earning a 1st and have chosen to be private tutors in Maths so early on in their career. ( spinoa has suggested some reasons why this might be)

Yes, I did read the comments, which came across as sneery (and obviously I wasn't the only one who thought so). The final comment of your last post still suggests the same - that it's a lesser career choice, not something someone would chose to do early on, not something that would be chosen by young, talented graduates and this is a perception that needs to change about the industry on the whole.

Why wouldn't a young 20-something Cambridge graduate decide to take up a career in private tuition? The reason you are questioning why someone would chose it is because of your own perceptions of it as a "lowly" job, not befitting of a top graduate. Personally, I think a career in any branch of education, be that state or private education is hugely important - educating the next generation, passing on knowledge. Surely you would want the best qualified to be interested in such careers?

My gripe is why you think private tutoring is a lesser job? From your observation You say you don't get it why Cambridge graduate would go through all the hurdles just to become a tutor what do you mean by this ? Its hard not to feel you are judging private tutors in some shape or form.

mel what makes you say the Westminster pupils are tutored?

My DS attends and he isn't. My DD will attend in September and isn't.

None of their mates are tutored. Frankly there isn't time!!!!

I can only speak from some years back, when I was surprised to discover some QSs still had their tutors (yes, plural).

It's a choice parents make. You'd think that boarding until Saturday lunchtime would rule out tutoring a QS, but there you are...

Well my scholarship boy didn't have a tutor to get it in the first place, so no one to retain .

why there are numerous individuals out there in their 20s who have spent years studying hard through a demanding Tripos plus a masters earning a 1st and have chosen to be private tutors in Maths so early on in their career.

Maybe they just love teaching maths? Maybe they value quality of life and job satisfaction over wealth? Being a gifted mathematician doesn't necessarily mean wanting to to work in a high powered job in finance.

testosterone filled, rage road type respondents

Love it!

Are there numerous graduates in their 20s with a first in maths from Cambridge plus a masters who are working as private tutors? I would be interested to see evidence for this, since the claim seems to contradict both Cambridge's employment statistics and my colleagues' experiences.

(BTW the private tutors I know work part-time, which is what I thought was meant originally and why I called it a relatively low pressure job. I haven't come across people working as a full-time tutor or running a tutoring company. Whichever is meant, people should do what they enjoy and I agree that working as a tutor could be very rewarding.)

There is often an assumption that tutors are only working part time (because it's obviously only a "little" job on the side for the student or SAHM to earn some pin money....). In fact, many of my students assume that they are my only students, in reality, I am usually booked between 6 months to a year in advance, travel around 300 miles in the course of a working week and even when i go on family holidays, i am answering phone calls, emails, completing admin.

However, it's an immensely satisfying job. I get to talk to enthusiastic, young students about my favourite subjects every single day (and get paid for doing so) and don't have to put up with the behaviour issues most secondary teachers experience. I get to work with students who have maybe lost faith in their own ability and I get to see them increasing their enjoyment of the subject as their understanding and confidence grows, other times I get to work with very able students who want to explore the subject beyond the school curriculum. What's not to love about such a job?

MargratGarlik You are not in your early 20's from what I can gather!?
I am not puzzled at all when it comes to you. Actually I would even expect it in some cases...at a certain age, many want to tutor, pass knowledge, feel they matter,......and some want to kick back and get some extra cash as well to add to their pension so if you have managed to build a successful private tuition business, then well done to you.

However, unless someone in their early 20's (as I have previously described) is truly passionate about private tutoring I remain puzzled.

To All the Westminster Clan don't protest too much!
Would you expect that mums would share their notes/experiences regarding the private tuition they arrange for their little darlings. No, of course not.

spinoa A quick google search and you'll find what you are looking for.
Actually only after reading Bonsoir's comment on this thread have I started investigating job prospects and opportunities for Maths graduates.

Still love it!

Ignorance is bliss!

Where is LotusLight when you need someone to stand up for the over qualified postmen tutors of this world?

I'm not exactly pensioning age by quite a long shot yet, thanks, Mel.

Still, my point holds. Do you look at young teachers and think the same? I get all the pluses of teaching without Ofsted and all the other shit, which is messing up our education system in the first place.

Googling tells me about a lot of people who are tutoring in evenings/weekends while doing a PhD or something else. It doesn't pull up a vast number of young people who are doing full time tutoring after obtaining a first in Maths and a "Masters" (whatever that is: MMath, MSc, MPhil).

It also tells me that the going rate for my PhD students or postdocs would be around £40-£50/hour so working full-time and billing ~30 hours per week would produce a very healthy income, albeit nowhere near what they could get offered by the financial sector.

maryso I totally agree with you on I was only surprised because one reason for choosing the school is that it saves you from buying tutoring. I was shocked to find out about how much tutoring was going on in one of the top feeders to the most sought after schools.

Please NoSmokingPlease you are most welcome