The best course/University for a Maths degree.

[Mel2Mel]

My DS will be starting his As levels next year. He is a capable mathematician and highly motivated.
I would really appreciate your advice on the best University for him to study Maths and what are the differences between the courses from one University to another.
Thank you very much in advance

They didn't get the sort of (high paid and interesting) jobs that their friends from school who read economics/engineering did. They don't seem to have acquired the same worldliness or social skills.

Bonsoir Where did they go to for their degrees?

Oxford/Imperial/Nottingham
Also some French students at French grandes écoles

Could it be their nature more than nurture, being mathematicians

We are gathering information at the moment and he has a year to decide. In the meantime he is getting ready for his GCSEs exams and STEP/MAT....too keen.

I don't know. It sometimes causes me to think about mathematicians and who they are. We have a friend who is a world-class über mathematician and he always says that his department in his university has the very worst accommodation and infrastructure because he and his colleagues have no social skills to drive a bargain for better, and so continually get the worst deals. Ie he verbalises the inherent lack of business acumen among mathematicians.

Many maths students find undergraduate mathematics much harder than they expected, and different to what they expected. Around 40% of Oxbridge mathematicians get a 2:2 or below, or transfer into another subject. A lot of students enter university thinking they are going to do research and then realise that they won't be able to do so.

Research in mathematics is extremely competitive at every stage. Getting a PhD position in a top group requires extremely strong undergraduate performance and most PhD students will not be able to stay in academia even if they want to, not even those graduating from top research groups at top institutions.

It's very hard to switch to a different field in your mid 20s (after PhD) or 30s (after postdoctoral research) when you are spent so much of your life focussed on mathematics. Nonetheless most maths PhDs go on to be very successful in a wide variety of fields: even if they are unworldy and lack experience, they rapidly figure out how to use their analytical skills outside academia. The typical salary of my "failed" PhD students, i.e. those who weren't good enough to stay in academia, is well into six figures.

By contrast to Bonsoir's experience: Oxford and Cambridge maths departments have fantastic new buildings, owing to the power and influence that they have within their universities. There are many examples of mathematicians taking prominent roles on university executive groups and in research councils. For example, the distinguished mathematician Michael Atiyah has been the master of Trinity College (Cambridge), chancellor at Leicester, the president of the Royal Society and he essentially founded a research institute (Isaac Newton Institute in Cambridge), using a lot of political clout to get the finance required.

Well, all the mathematicians I know are either academics (highly respected, but academic salaries only) or went into actuarial roles, the city, computing, and all earn way, way more than any of our contemporaries.

I have friends that are single honours maths graduates that retired at 30 and 32 respectively!

However, maybe it was just our circle, but they all have firsts, one got a 2.1, most did M.Math.

AtomicDog I think I have the same experience as you in this matter. Most of the successful people I have met are mathematicians. I just believe that they have different priorities, they are much more of a Warren Buffet school

They are very well respected. A well respected Law professor informed me that she would rather have a mathematician to convert to Law than others because they already have logic and she can teach them the essay writing skills but she can't teach logic.

'capable mathematician' Is this an understatement for 'by far the best mathematician in his year group' ? This is what he probably needs to be for Cambridge maths.

I'm all for encouragement, but many people who breeze through GCSE maths do not breeze through A level maths and further maths. So whilst encouraging ambition, make sure he has a plan B at least until end y12.

A million years ago (80s) I read maths at Cambridge. Maths and FM A level (&special papers) had been quite easy for me. Maths degree was hard . And there were so many people who were miles better than I was.

Lovely place to be at university though.

Yes TeenAndTween it is an understatement ;) I wouldn't dare to come on MM and post in any other way :)

We visited Cambridge on Saturday and he loved it. He managed to stay awake through one mini lecture and was really interested when few dropped off.

My friends DS graduated from Glasgow last year and is currently doing a PhD in Mathematics there, sponsored by a company in Wales. Something to do with analysis of satellite photos. He certainly enjoyed his degree and has guaranteed funding and summer, then permanent jobs while he completes it. He did say one advantage the sponsorship gives him is he can actually see his research being used which gives him an incentive.

Did he get caught up in the chaos when the lecture building turned out to be locked, MelMel?

Lancelottie Yes we did My DS told me that it wouldn't have happened if they were @ the engineers faculty

Which college you've visited?

Actually this was relayed to us by a friend of DS's. DS is not much of a mathmo himself, but Friend is and seemed to find the whole 'hats' lecture very exciting.

Some slept through it

I shall put it to the fact they were standing for a long time and walked a lot though.

Fingers crossed that the first question if they get interviewed will be 'What did you think of the Hat lecture? Or did you fall asleep?'

or '' What did you think of my hat lecture?"

I didn't go in because there wasn't enough space but my DS found it good enough and couldn't understand the reaction of the others.

Poor DS, he had put up with a lot during his schooling so he manages to see the half full in various situations.

Hmm, yes, I suppose there will have been a few for whom it was all too trivial and old hat boring.

They were talking more about her skills as a presenter more than the Maths behind it, some commented on her accent,.... Actually my DS found the comments were trivial because none was directed at the quality of the content.

Nowadays many academic staff in maths are international - in some departments international staff are in the majority - so if students have issues with accents they probably need to get over them quite quickly. It is a fair criticism that the "top" people weren't talking at the open day, but this is understandable given how busy they are.

One of my very mathematical friends (PhD level) said that people tend to reach their limit with maths at some point and that's why people stop.

spinoa Some of the ''top'' people were talking @ the colleges and were wonderful. I believe some were talking @ the faculty as well from what I've heard from DS; someone was talking about his research as well.

My DS, having lived in many countries, is used to different accents and different cultures. He had no problem understanding her. On the other hand some on the day might have never seen a foreign person so as you've said they need to get over it.

Any way the mini lectures on the day are only meant to give a little flavour of what goes on :)