Bright child has no friends at preschool

[Tetherless]

My son started at preschool in September, having turned 3 last May (so is still 3). He’d never been to childcare before and we’d had a very isolated existence during covid as all family live abroad and we had to shield for the first lockdown. He struggled a lot settling in initially - wouldn’t sit with other children at meals, cried at drop off etc - but by the end of the first term he was joining in with everything, got on really well with the staff and seemed to me to have made huge progress.

He didn’t play with other kids at all at first but now does to a limited degree (apparently mainly when he can lead the activity). He much prefers talking to the adults. The staff have said that they are concerned with his social communication because he doesn’t have friends yet and have mentioned ASD as something they are thinking about.

DS is and always has been incredibly advanced - he met all milestones early, particularly those relating to communication (babbled with consonants at 4 months, pointing and first words at 8 months, sentences at 13 months). His maths is similarly advanced and he is extremely musical. He can read pretty well (on year 1 books atm). He is incredibly sensitive, imaginative, has a fantastic memory and sense of humour and is creative with a very wide range of interests. Motor skills wise he walked early, could ride a bike before he was 3, draws really well and starting to write. He has no sensory issues, eats and sleeps well and I have never considered him to have any kind of rigidness in terms of approach to routines. He’s generally pretty flexible but will sometimes kick off if he doesn’t get what he wants (which I thought was typical of his age). He is a bit of a stickler for the rules when playing games and that’s one of the things that nursery has cited (in addition to his preference for talking to adults) as “evidence” that he may be on the spectrum.

It has never crossed my mind that he is anything other than a bright but neurotypical child. Quite how bright I’m not sure. I feel that his issues making friends and preferring adults stem from a combination of natural shyness (DH and I both shy, academically high achieving kids), lack of practice due to covid and being used to being with adults, and difficulty engaging with peers whose language and interests are very different from his.

I feel that nursery has totally got it wrong but am conscious of course that they have a lot of experience (though possibly not with a child with this particular combination of circumstances). I feel slightly trapped in a parallel universe where they are seeing a completely different child from the one we see at home. They don’t seem to see his intelligence as a factor in his interactions with peers and seem keen to label him which seems crazy to me.

Should I be concerned? Is there anything I should be saying/doing with them or with him? Do I need to help him more with friendships or will it come with time? I feel slightly at a loss.

My son is autistic, my daughter was 'quirky' in nursery. School wanted her referred for ASD assessment in year one. I held off but things deteriorated rapidly to the point of exclusions by year 3. As the waiting list in our area is over three years long I paid to go privately. She's now diagnosed with ADHD/ASD among other things. It's fine to wait but just be aware that wait times for assessment are ridiculous. Also in my daughters case, the higher up the school she went, the less play and more expectations meant she struggled to cope more and more. There's no harm in being on a wait list, believe me, they won't diagnose him if he's not autistic.

@Tetherless

I am working with his nursery on getting him extra help socialising - I think they are doing a good job on that. It really surprised me though that they would casually throw out what seems to me to be quite a serious thing.

It very much won't have been "casually".

He didn’t play with other kids at all at first but now does to a limited degree (apparently mainly when he can lead the activity). He much prefers talking to the adults. The staff have said that they are concerned with his social communication because he doesn’t have friends yet and have mentioned ASD as something they are thinking about.

All of this has been taken into account. They have worked with him for two terms. They will have done observations and noticed his differences when he is in.
they have put it out there as something you might want to consider as a possibility, something to look in to or investigate further.

Child development is their specialism. They work with children of his age all day every day. They know there are a wide variety of skills, abilities and struggles, and they know to let dc settle in. They know this academic year they were starting with a lot of dc who hadn't mixed much. They have already given him two terms to settle, yet he has not managed to pick up the social skills that would be considered within a normal range. At this point, it is their responsibility to share that with the child's parents.

For someone who so clearly doesn't want their child to be labelled, you sure are attached to the label of 'intelligent'.

Neuro diverse people are as diverse as the rest of the population when it comes to intelligence. I'm not sure if you realise this but saying your child 'cannot' have ASD because they 'are' intelligent is pretty insulting to an awful lot of intelligent autists.

Honestly OP, this will not have been thrown out casually by the pre-school staff, they would only raise it with you if they have genuine concerns about your son's social communication. Many (most) other children in the setting will have been impacted by Covid in terms of their early socialisation, and social communication difficulties are much more than just being 'shy'. Your son would never be labelled unnecessarily (and in fact waiting lists are so long that it's unlikely anything will happen until long after he starts school). I don't think you have anything to lose by going down the route they are suggesting at this stage and it may well be helpful.

@MaChienEstUnDick

For someone who so clearly doesn't want their child to be labelled, you sure are attached to the label of 'intelligent'.

Neuro diverse people are as diverse as the rest of the population when it comes to intelligence. I'm not sure if you realise this but saying your child 'cannot' have ASD because they 'are' intelligent is pretty insulting to an awful lot of intelligent autists.

That’s not at all what I’m saying - the opposite really - that intelligence is so strongly associated with autism that they may be confused here. There is no doubt that he is bright. He may also have ASD, I just haven’t had an adequate explanation from anyone why they think that is.

Tetherless how do you know if you have it or you dont?
Many adults are walking around unaware and undiagnosed

The social communication difficulties they have identified are that he prefers to talk to adults and will seek out staff rather than choosing to play with other kids. He does play with the other kids when it is facilitated by them. He doesn’t initiate it himself. That’s the extent of their concerns.

I’m not minimising it because I really want him to make friends with his peers, but what I am questioning is how that - without more - suggests a possible autism diagnosis.

@orangetriangle

Tetherless how do you know if you have it or you dont? Many adults are walking around unaware and undiagnosed

I don’t meet any of the criteria

But nursery can't tell you if he does or if he doesn't. All they can do is look at a picture of child compared to the thousands of other children they've had through their hands and say 'in this DC's case, there's a few things that are unusual, taken together we think they warrant further investigation.' Their job is to flag that, your job is to take it further. The paediatrician may then laugh at their fears, that's fine. No harm done. Nursery have done their job, you've done yours, doctor has done theirs.

I think there are enough flags in your posts to warrant getting him checked out, but nursery will be petrified of both saying too much and saying too little. It's a very difficult path they have to tread.

For my DS, he was assessed and found to be 'fine' at age 3. Nursery then had a really incredibly difficult conversation with me where they said 'actually, we don't think that's correct, we don't think he is fine.' That was difficult to hear but they only had his best interests at heart. We listened, went about the process another way and 18 months later he had a diagnosis.

You seem very defensive - rather like your mind is made up no matter what experience is shared with you re similar experiences.

@MaChienEstUnDick can you tell me what the flags are in my posts?

I’ve got the doesn’t initiate play with his peers at nursery. What else is there that would concern you?

@EllaB22

You seem very defensive - rather like your mind is made up no matter what experience is shared with you re similar experiences.

I do feel quite defensive - partly because I feel like you could take any child and say that they display certain traits and therefore they should be put on this pathway, just in case. I suppose I feel that they haven’t really understood him at all, which upsets me for obvious reasons.

where they are seeing a completely different child from the one we see at home

This is so, so common by the way - you as a parent get so used to meeting your own child's needs and creating the right environment for them, it isn't even something you do consciously. Then in a school or nursery setting with no one smoothing the way, the same child runs into difficulties.
It's not that they are a different child, it's just a totally different environment.

I feel the nursery were wrong to mention ASD, even if that is their concern, as that can be very difficult for a parent to hear if they didn't suspect it themselves. Nursery shouldn't be suggesting a diagnosis.
They should have focussed only on the areas where he needs support, whether that's social skills, social communication, anxiety etc.

The nursery staff will have seen 100s of children, including very bright children, and children with additional needs, and will have a good general sense of which children might need some extra support.

Everything @MaChienEstUnDick has said.

Indeed, also this You seem very defensive - rather like your mind is made up no matter what experience is shared with you re similar experiences.
You've started the thread asking if you should be concerned, and saying you are at a loss but you are arguing with everyone who says tht there is enough in your post to warrant instigating some further assessment.

Based on your description of your son (who sounds like a fab little boy) there could be some red flags for ASD or possibly not. However the best diagnosticians of children with autism are other children. Kids can sniff out someone who is a bit 'different' a mile away and if he's not making friends or finding anyone to get on with at nursery, that's a pretty big red flag. And the fact he can do better in 1:1 situations supports this as kids who are ND often do better 1:1 than in a group setting.

If they said they thought he had a problem with his hearing or eyesight and you should get him tested, would you ignore them because you hadn’t noticed anything.

Many children’s hearing and eyesight issues get picked up at nursery/school

I would say you know your child best. I definitely agree that it's wise to make a big effort re plenty of playdates and encouraging friends.

So stickler for rules, very early reader, very bright, finding social issues tricky and prefers adult company, kicks off when doesnt get own way. And on top of this nursery have noticed a difference that means they think he mighy be autistic which they won't do lightly. What have you got to lose?

So many of us recognise us/our kids in your description!

Difficulty settling/coping with the transition from school to nursery - difficulty with transitions is a flag, while there were mitigating circumstances nursery are still right to factor this into their thinking

Difficulties with social communication - social communication disorder is a diagnosis in its own right by the way, again that's a flag

Preference for adults - that's because adults model their communication styles and adapt for the child, it's easier. Another flag.

Hyperlexia - another one.

Stickler for the rules - I'd be wanting to understand how that shows up in nursery, you also say he's quite flexible but the two things don't typically go together. Being a stickler for the rules at home isn't an issue, it's something we praise, but that may be showing up in a different way with other children.

I must stress, I am not saying in any way shape or form that this is ASD or that nursery are right. All I'm saying is, they've gathered a wee collection of flags to show you - now it's up to you to decide what to do with it. IMO, there's no harm or foul getting an opinion or referral from your GP.

I think it’s just come as a real shock because I have absolutely no concerns myself, and also can’t find anything online to suggest that I should be concerned - he doesn’t match any of the checklists of red flags apart from - only possibly - the difficulties in social communication. And I say only possibly because he has no issues in that regard with adults, older or younger children, or his exact peers on a 1-1 basis. He seems to struggle in groups in the nursery environment in particular.

Now, if that in itself is enough of a red flag to get him assessed for autism then fine. But I guess this thread is me trying to work out if that is the case.

Also not sure what "He is incredibly sensitive, imaginative, has a fantastic memory and sense of humour and is creative with a very wide range of interests" has to do with it. This would describe most autistic people I know 🤣. I'm interested in everything but sadly dont have the great memory.

Similarly someone earlier mentioned empathy. Its a myth autistic people dont have empathy/arent creative etc.

Oh yes MaChien - I forgot difficulty adjusting to new environment.

I think there's enough of a profile to suggest further investigation. I don't really see why you wouldn't. It doesn't mean there's something "wrong" with him he will still be him with or without a diagnosis, but if he is autistic it can really help later on knowing it and also in order to find out more about what it is like for autistic people.

I think often with first children people don't see any concerns themself as its just all the parents have known, and they adapt for their children. I had very little idea other kids didnt have full conversations by 2, or so many other things partly as it was our normal and in my case partly as it was like me!

In response to what in your op is a specific flag for autism - all of it. Every single thing. In isolation each trait maybe wouldn't suggest neurodiversity, but the combination of everything you have described very much points towards autism. The precociously early language, strict adherence to rules during play, only enjoying play instigated by him (and therefore his rules presumably?). I know it seems like a small thing to you, but specifically the seeking out of adults for company rather than his peers, and continuing to do so after he has now settled and is comfortable at nursery, is a very definite flag. In many ways you have described my dd at nursery age, I described her as highly intelligent and very shy for years. Once at primary school I added very sensitive and then anxious and rule loving to that description and then finally the penny dropped and we realised that autism was the reason behind all of those traits. I am definitely not saying your ds is autistic, nobody on here can say that as they haven't met him, but from experience knowledge is power and diagnosis has enabled us to better advocate for our dd and meet her needs and has empowered her to advocate for herself and to understand who she is and why she feels different. If your ds isn't autistic he won't be diagnosed, but if he is, the earlier both you and he know that the better.

Ok so I have skimmed the thread OP .My 26 year old son had all the characteristics of ASD when he was young…articulate,adult company,obsessive behaviour,ridiculous intelligence blah blah blah! But he was never assessed…never crossed my mind to have it done!!
He is now an ecologist and enjoying life. He went to a top Uni ,enjoyed his student life and just happy! He is actually lovely as well.X

I didn't think my child had autism either when he was that age. I was wrong