Bright child has no friends at preschool

[Tetherless]

My son started at preschool in September, having turned 3 last May (so is still 3). He’d never been to childcare before and we’d had a very isolated existence during covid as all family live abroad and we had to shield for the first lockdown. He struggled a lot settling in initially - wouldn’t sit with other children at meals, cried at drop off etc - but by the end of the first term he was joining in with everything, got on really well with the staff and seemed to me to have made huge progress.

He didn’t play with other kids at all at first but now does to a limited degree (apparently mainly when he can lead the activity). He much prefers talking to the adults. The staff have said that they are concerned with his social communication because he doesn’t have friends yet and have mentioned ASD as something they are thinking about.

DS is and always has been incredibly advanced - he met all milestones early, particularly those relating to communication (babbled with consonants at 4 months, pointing and first words at 8 months, sentences at 13 months). His maths is similarly advanced and he is extremely musical. He can read pretty well (on year 1 books atm). He is incredibly sensitive, imaginative, has a fantastic memory and sense of humour and is creative with a very wide range of interests. Motor skills wise he walked early, could ride a bike before he was 3, draws really well and starting to write. He has no sensory issues, eats and sleeps well and I have never considered him to have any kind of rigidness in terms of approach to routines. He’s generally pretty flexible but will sometimes kick off if he doesn’t get what he wants (which I thought was typical of his age). He is a bit of a stickler for the rules when playing games and that’s one of the things that nursery has cited (in addition to his preference for talking to adults) as “evidence” that he may be on the spectrum.

It has never crossed my mind that he is anything other than a bright but neurotypical child. Quite how bright I’m not sure. I feel that his issues making friends and preferring adults stem from a combination of natural shyness (DH and I both shy, academically high achieving kids), lack of practice due to covid and being used to being with adults, and difficulty engaging with peers whose language and interests are very different from his.

I feel that nursery has totally got it wrong but am conscious of course that they have a lot of experience (though possibly not with a child with this particular combination of circumstances). I feel slightly trapped in a parallel universe where they are seeing a completely different child from the one we see at home. They don’t seem to see his intelligence as a factor in his interactions with peers and seem keen to label him which seems crazy to me.

Should I be concerned? Is there anything I should be saying/doing with them or with him? Do I need to help him more with friendships or will it come with time? I feel slightly at a loss.

Honestly unless there are massive red flags they shouldn't be trying to diagnose ASD. Plenty of bright children are not the worlds most confident children or the best at social interactions. I've got one like that myself.
I would ask them what ASD indicators they have seen that aren't developmentally normal for a preschooler.
I am finding more and more kids are being labelled as 'probably on the spectrum' and sometimes it's because they're quiet, or bright or even just more polite than others. It's getting a bit ridiculous.
If they can see something you honestly haven't spotted then speak to your GP or HV. But unless there are delays in development or behaviour problems then I'd wait and see how he develops.

www.additudemag.com/autism-spectrum-disorder-symptoms-test-children/

I haven’t done this but might be worth looking it.

Same experience with DS1. We were certain nursery was wrong. DS1 was also only really around adults which, to us, fully explained his unwillingness to play with his peers.

He is 24 now, and was diagnosed with ASD (Aspergers) at 14. He remains one of the most intelligent people I know.

Following rules to the point of enforcing them is a very clear trait.

nutelling you - completely disagree. Increased awareness of austism is only a good thing in my mind and there are lots of people in their 30/40s, especially women, realising that they are autistic and that that explains so much for them.

It is incredibly hard to get a diagnosis - and 2 professionals have to independently agree. I think if anything it's probably under-diagnosed (because women again.)

This was my DS. I went along with the school even though I had no worries. First we went to anxiety group. Then the psychologist there suggested an ASD assessment. We were still unconvinced and DS happy and thriving with lots of friends at that point. The odd meltdown but nothing drastic. Finally in year 5 he got an ASD diagnosis. We were surprised but beginning to come around to the idea. He was in a tiny one form entry primary with less than 20 in his class.
DS is 14 now. Hasn't been to school for over a year. On his second secondary school. Soooo many issues.
I'm really glad now that the school suggested it. If they're wrong, no biggy. But if they're onto something you'll be very glad of an early diagnosis as it's so much easier to get help / an EHCP etc.

You sound very worried about your child being diagnosed as being ASD. There is nothing wrong with being ASD- you already have said how amazing he is. But accepting the possibility means you will help him more than by simply rejecting profesional advice. You say you are NT but how do you know unless you’ve been tested? And it is very difficult to identify in females in comparison to males. And parents are less likely to see it in themselves and their child. Accept that the nursery/school do have more experience than you and are working with your sons best interest in mind. He’s amazing but he could be even more so with the correct support. X

Sounds very much like my dd when she was at nursery.
She was very much a watcher, did not join in play. Very bright and sparky, quick witted and could talk to adults very well.
An absolute stickler for rules and that everybody should adhere to them.

She was diagnosed as autistic at 13.

It isn't anything shameful and it would be much better for you and your ds if you get an early diagnosis.
The nursery will have sen 100's of children pass through their care. They must be pretty certain to have mentioned it to you.

I disagree with you too @nutellingyou

Rather than kids “being labelled” when not autistic, there are actually lots of autistic children have can’t get the “label” as it’s such a long road to diagnosis, or school insist they are “fine” when the child is actually masking all day in school (more common in girls, but can also happen in boys)

(And yes sounds like me and my autistic daughter .... however I have often wondered does that mean most very clever /early readers/quirky people are autistic...?)

@OutlookStalking

I think my point is that Early Years practitioners should not be speculating like this. If they have proper concerns they should be asking parents things like "how do you feel he interacts with other children, we've noticed xyz" or "we noticed such and such happened today, was anything said at his two year check".

And if they've spoken to you a couple of times they should then be suggesting an appointment with the GP or HV and state what is concerning them.

They are NOT qualified to diagnose.
They should be signposting you to people who can, if they have concerns.

DS doesn’t have any problems with emotional regulation or any sensory issues at all.

For what it's worth, sensory issues may not be apparent at all in toddler age. I presented as entirely normal my entire childhood & teens, no tantrums, no meltdowns, no issues regarding textures, food, noises etc. I only realised much later on that all the sensory issues manifested as inner anxiety and I didn't even know what caused it. Eg. I hated the unpredictability of travelling but never complained or made a fuss. My parents took me to loads of places and they never had an inkling that anything was wrong. Even I simply accepted that having panic and anxiety around travelling was normal for me and I just got on with it my entire adult life.

I don't think there is any harm in pursuing this. It's quite difficult for preschools to bring these kind of things up and they wouldn't have done it lightly. Plus they will be aware it takes absolutely ages to get anywhere with diagnoses so best to get the ball rolling. It's not that easy to get a diagnosis so I don't see what you have to lose. If he's assessed by professionals and they think he's fine then that's brilliant. If he gets a diagnosis and can get help for coping with school then also brilliant. I just don't see what you have to gain from denying it.

@BananaPlants

I agree with your point though. But that is not the case here.

In my opinion teachers are often right if they mention something to a parent. They are 100s of kids at the same age and if something sticks out to them I wouldn't be so quick to disregard it.
I understand that's it's upsetting for you to even entertain that there may be anything up with him but he still the same little boy

It's better to be aware that you're son could have Autism than not aware imo, it will take a few years to probably get a diagnosis and support via the usual school/NHS pathway so it's best to think about it as early as possible.
If he is, then it sounds like he is coping amazingly well in that setting and will hopefully navigate primary school and life in general, just aswell. But if things don't go as well as hoped, then atleast you've had the idea of Autism raised so you can atleast look into this sooner to get the support needed. This is coming from a mother of a child diagnosed at age 9 who had a few things raised from age 7, but nobody seemed to think asd. It would have saved my son a lot of trouble and tears if someone had of raised the idea from age 3...

And also I'm not saying PP's LO hasn't got ASD.

I do wish someone who had an inkling had mentioned it to me earlier tbh. I just thought my girl was bright. And like me....

IT was only after I was on the pathway I asked the teacher what she thought, "Oh she's a bright autistic girl". I had no idea...

Zippy - snap!

I think that it is always worth listening to nursery staff is if they raise concerns. Simply because they will have experienced 100s of children whilst you will only have experienced a small number. They will know if something is a bit outside the norm.

They don't want to force a label, they want to help. They have had hundreds of children, if something sticks out for them, it's absolutely worth pursuing to ensure he gets the correct support in place.
They don't gain anything by raising the concern.

Honestly, I thought 'maybe ASD' when reading your initial post, even before you mentioned it. There are a number of suggestions here. However, they're only flag, not definites of course! I have two boys almost the same ages as your children. I'm amazed your child is actually reading!
Your child may or not be autistic. But if so, there is such a wide range of the spectrum. I have always considered myswlf neurotypical (but a bit weird - I know I'm different from others and always have been. I was also a very very early reader and writer and was far ahead of my peers at school even from nursery. But struggled socially.).Now I know a lot more about autism as I'm a teacher, I strongly suspect I have high functioning autism myself. It makes a lot of sense and actually I'm glad to know (even though it's only an assumption) because now I understand myself better. Nursery suggested my son might be autistic actually, as he stims a lot, but I know it's not the end of the world. He might be, he might not be - will wait and see and worry with him! Worth WITH your child's nursery, rather than against them, as this is the best way to support your child.

[quote nutellingyou]@OutlookStalking

I think my point is that Early Years practitioners should not be speculating like this. If they have proper concerns they should be asking parents things like "how do you feel he interacts with other children, we've noticed xyz" or "we noticed such and such happened today, was anything said at his two year check".

And if they've spoken to you a couple of times they should then be suggesting an appointment with the GP or HV and state what is concerning them.

They are NOT qualified to diagnose.
They should be signposting you to people who can, if they have concerns.

[/quote]
@nutellingyou In my area it is the school or early years setting that makes the referral. Referrals are not accepted from the GP so no use signposting parents there.

There's no point asking randoms on Mumsnet, better to listen to the nursery.
He is not going to get a diagnosis if he's not on the spectrum.
Although I don't think reading at 3 is that unusual. I could read at 3, and I am not a very average adult.
I do think your child preferring the company of adults and being a stickler for the rules may be a good indication.

I could have written your post about my son, OP. At preschool age to us he was just an extremely bright child who preferred chatting to adults as they were more interesting than other children. Once at school, we were told at the beginning of year 1, and it also gradually became more evident to us, that he clearly had high-functioning ASD. I’d wait and see how he gets on at school and things may become clearer one way or the other.

@axolotlfloof www.webmd.com/children/what-is-hyperlexia