Bright child has no friends at preschool

[Tetherless]

My son started at preschool in September, having turned 3 last May (so is still 3). He’d never been to childcare before and we’d had a very isolated existence during covid as all family live abroad and we had to shield for the first lockdown. He struggled a lot settling in initially - wouldn’t sit with other children at meals, cried at drop off etc - but by the end of the first term he was joining in with everything, got on really well with the staff and seemed to me to have made huge progress.

He didn’t play with other kids at all at first but now does to a limited degree (apparently mainly when he can lead the activity). He much prefers talking to the adults. The staff have said that they are concerned with his social communication because he doesn’t have friends yet and have mentioned ASD as something they are thinking about.

DS is and always has been incredibly advanced - he met all milestones early, particularly those relating to communication (babbled with consonants at 4 months, pointing and first words at 8 months, sentences at 13 months). His maths is similarly advanced and he is extremely musical. He can read pretty well (on year 1 books atm). He is incredibly sensitive, imaginative, has a fantastic memory and sense of humour and is creative with a very wide range of interests. Motor skills wise he walked early, could ride a bike before he was 3, draws really well and starting to write. He has no sensory issues, eats and sleeps well and I have never considered him to have any kind of rigidness in terms of approach to routines. He’s generally pretty flexible but will sometimes kick off if he doesn’t get what he wants (which I thought was typical of his age). He is a bit of a stickler for the rules when playing games and that’s one of the things that nursery has cited (in addition to his preference for talking to adults) as “evidence” that he may be on the spectrum.

It has never crossed my mind that he is anything other than a bright but neurotypical child. Quite how bright I’m not sure. I feel that his issues making friends and preferring adults stem from a combination of natural shyness (DH and I both shy, academically high achieving kids), lack of practice due to covid and being used to being with adults, and difficulty engaging with peers whose language and interests are very different from his.

I feel that nursery has totally got it wrong but am conscious of course that they have a lot of experience (though possibly not with a child with this particular combination of circumstances). I feel slightly trapped in a parallel universe where they are seeing a completely different child from the one we see at home. They don’t seem to see his intelligence as a factor in his interactions with peers and seem keen to label him which seems crazy to me.

Should I be concerned? Is there anything I should be saying/doing with them or with him? Do I need to help him more with friendships or will it come with time? I feel slightly at a loss.

In my area it is the school or early years setting that makes the referral. Referrals are not accepted from the GP so no use signposting parents there.

That's really surprising. Where I am we would absolutely refer to HV or GP but of course talk to parents about concerns and symptoms rather than diagnose. It's massively important that ASD indicators are picked up in early years but it's also, where I am, not our role to say 'I think your child has ASD'.

We sometimes suggest the S&L team as they have the ability to diagnose ASD.

I have friends who have children with ASD but won't do anything about it, I've seen both sides, plus I believe my own DC is on the spectrum somewhere. I was lucky enough to have a Ed psych observation but nothing came from it (bright child just shy/quirky).

At 3 they don't really have friendship groups. Some kids just prefer adult company for whatever reason. I really wouldn't listen to a word they say.

Also the referals are done via school here too - from school to Child development centre too (not camhs like in other areas).

It's worth having it checked out. A young and inexperienced teacher said it to us about our DD and we had it checked out. She was struggling to interact with her peers.
Assessment was that she was fine and could interact when she had things in common with other children in her peer group. Small school, small intake, less scope for like minded academic peers. She can and will interact with her peers, she just moans about a lack of like mindedness afterwards.

@BananaPlants

www.additudemag.com/autism-spectrum-disorder-symptoms-test-children/

I haven’t done this but might be worth looking it.

I’ve just done this and he’s scored 23/120 which seems very low.

I don’t object to them trying to help, I just genuinely don’t think there is an issue.

Your child either has autism or he doesn’t a diagnosis won’t change that, what it will change is access to support if needed. (Although I’ve found support minimal tbh)

Sounds very similar to my DS and I would have said there were no signs of ASD at 3 as well. He was diagnosed at age 8. Very obviously autistic now. I think back and wish I'd seen then what I know now as early intervention would have been so much better.

Sounds very very similar to one of my dc who has just been diagnosed with ASD. We could have sought a diagnosis sooner as we probably suspected from time of nursery for similar reasons your nursery are suggesting. Getting it now as puberty is ramping things up a notch and they start secondary this year. Language is ironically their super power - reading age many years ahead of their age, writes amazing sensitive poetry and fantastic creative stories, reads voraciously and is and always was highly articulate from the get go. Our dc was massively helped by spending the second year of nursery at a private school who completely saw them and moved them into a KS1 class when they were 3 and half. Much more stimulated and also friendships were easier to navigate when the other children were more experienced. Helped them develop the skills for a successful journey through the rest of primary at our local school. Now heading to a SS grammar where we are hoping there will be other quirky, articulate kids to make friends with.

It’s not easy and the last two years may mean that just the social isolation has lead to these traits in your dc. No hurry for a diagnosis but be open to it because it will help them to know if they are. Good luck.

Is being noticeably above average academic almost always a sign of ASD?

Apologies for not having read the whole thread. At nearly 3 we put our DD into a nursery. She refused to talk to any of the children and just stood with one of the leaders the whole time. She hated attention being drawn to her. She would scowl at them if they praised her. She hated hated hated that nursery.
They called us in and told us she needed urgent psychological assessment as they'd never met anyone like her before and they thought she needed a diagnosis.
We removed her (should have done it sooner) and sent her to the state nursery. They accepted her. She still didn't speak to any other children but loved the nursery as the adults just let her get on with playing in her own way. She stayed there till 4.5 and gradually started playing with other children but still not as much as others.
Like your DC she was very advanced. She was speaking in full sentences at 18 months, could count to 100 at 2 and read pretty fluently at 3.
She turned out to be extremely academically intelligent (she's now at uni). She also developed social intelligence and empathy. As far as I'm aware she's neurotypical (her father is not; I am; she appears to be - lots of friends, lots of fun, loved by teachers and popular with other students).
I'm not saying to ignore the staff because they are experienced and may be saying the right things - but they were wrong with my DD and I am really glad she didn't get assessed at that age. (Partly because she was so very very aware of everything that, had she known that we thought there might be something wrong, she'd have been extremely self conscious).
If he seems happy and you have no concerns I would just see how things develop over the next few months.

@Blea I think it’s sometimes called ‘twice exceptional’. Autistic people tend to have spiky profiles, so they’ll be years ahead of expectations in some areas and quite behind in others. It also explains the phenomenon of autistic ‘savants’ who have a learning disability but can e.g. draw entire buildings from memory. (Think referring to this is now considered a bit un-PC).

Nursery have raised it with you for a reason - they see a lot of children and I would take it seriously.
However it’s not a diagnosis, only a professional can do that and ASD can be hard to diagnose.

Your son sounds wonderful and very bright, and covid related isolation may mean his social skills with his peers are a less developed due to the lack of interaction.

I would speak to a specialist and get their opinion.

Everyone saying early intervention would have been better - how and what and why? Because whether he has a condition or not, presumably some of the intervention could be useful anyway?

My dd was reading at 3. She's autistic but she had so many other markers unlike your son eg late speech, refusal to cooperate, food issues, no friends, etc

I have the opposite issue with my now 8 year old DS - I wish nursery had flagged his issues 5 years ago. He's clearly on the spectrum and was v similar to your DS at that age. Now I have a hugely anxious child who over-thinks EVERY situation to the point he makes himself physically ill. School won't even consider having him assessed for ASD because he is "able to access the curriculum appropriately" and isn't disruptive. I'm already terrified of what his teenage years will bring in terms of MH issues and truly believe an ASD diagnosis would change our lives.

What were his first words?

@5zeds

What were his first words?

Cat, mama, dada, pear…why?

Because all the autistics I know got the “mama” and “papa” later and nouns first.

@Tetherless Early intervention means that, if there’s a diagnosis, it’ll be done in a timely manner. Waiting lists for ASD assessment are 4 years in our area. In the meantime, school can help DS with building friendships etc.

It’s perfectly possible that your DS won’t meet the diagnosis threshold, in which case he still might be entitled to extra help and support with social skills.

Nothing from your description screams autism at me, but I think there is a tendency now to push that descriptor for higher iq children. Shy ness is often seen as abnormal and something to be fixed. Honestly look at yourself and your husband/siblings. Is he in line with your families norms?

He doesn’t fit the profile of a child with ASD, unless intelligence is somehow part of the profile?

I see lots of posters saying that they had similar children who were later diagnosed, but they must have ticked boxes beyond “prefers the company of adults to children”. As I’ve said, he plays with his peers on a 1-1 basis. He doesn’t have a single other issue on any ASD checkbox ticklist. I feel a bit like I’m going mad!

they are trying to label him as something he’s not.

This isn't true. If they don't have asd, they don't get diagnosis.

My ds was referred to paed by nursery, and never got diagnosis. Difference between me and you is that I suspected he may have too.
Even though he didn't get diagnosis, still benefitted being referred to, and received help for socialising from nursery.

I still think he has some traits, but I don't think people think he has it now. I've asked teachers many times over the years, none of them said they suspected it. I think it's a lot to do with early intervention provided by nursery and school in reception.

So, if he doesn't have it, he doesn't get false label. But if he does have it, it will help him greatly to get help early. It's nothing to lose either way.

I agree with most.
Nobody is "trying to label" your ds as anything.
The Nursery are raising it as a possibility.

From what you have described, very reasonably. If they weren't discussing it with you, then they would be failing in their remit. It is their duty to raise developmental concerns with parents.

Believe me, if you listen and decide to go for an assessment, you will wait on waiting lists for months or years, and then there will be a thorough assessment.

If he doesn't have autism, he will not get a diagnosis.

If he does have autism, it will help him a lot in his life that it has been identified and adjustments can be put in place.

Whether or not he has autism, he clearly has difficulties interacting with his peers. He has difficulty communicating with his peers. He has difficulty playing - with all the negotiating and problem solving skills that 3 year olds usually have in playing with their peers.

Perhaps you should work together with the Nursery to work on those skills, (where you have agreed in your OP that he struggles) even though you are not open to listening to all their experience about why he might have these difficulties.

@5zeds

Nothing from your description screams autism at me, but I think there is a tendency now to push that descriptor for higher iq children. Shy ness is often seen as abnormal and something to be fixed. Honestly look at yourself and your husband/siblings. Is he in line with your families norms?

Yes. My husband and I were both very shy children. We were both high achievers academically.

Before anyone says oh maybe we have ASD and weren’t diagnosed, we don’t.

I am working with his nursery on getting him extra help socialising - I think they are doing a good job on that. It really surprised me though that they would casually throw out what seems to me to be quite a serious thing.