OK. Talk to me about possible eating disorder

[BrahmsThirdRacket]

I've posted on here before about weight etc (have namechanged since then), about my low BMI and whether it was 'normal' etc. I was very resentful of people talking about eating disorders, but am starting to try and look at that possibility more realistically now. Also, was on a thread last night that made me think.

My BMI is 17.6, making me about half a stone underweight. I'm 5 ft 4. My DP was the first to point it out, but more people are saying the same thing now. I went to the GP after I was advised to on here. He said I was about half a stone underweight, but he wasn't really worried about my health - my periods are fine and I have no health issues or anything weird going on with my body.

Sometimes I think I am just a slim person, and it's normal etc. I know I'm underweight, and have a strong desire to remain looking like this which shouldn't be right. But I don't go to crazy lengths to stay this way - I don't make myself puke, I don't starve myself, live on coffee etc. I will eat something if I really want it, even if it is the most calorific thing in the world. But I realise now that I have lost perspective on what a reasonable weight/amount of food to eat is. When I'm thinking about what to eat it panics me a bit, because I don't want to eat too much. I'm constantly working out what I've eaten that day and whether I can 'afford' to eat more.

Before Christmas I decided the best way to deal with it would be to do more exercise, to stimulate my appetite, and eat more. But what's actually happened is I'm not eating that much more, and am burning calories I probably can't afford. I don't think I have lost anymore weight though.

I was watching some diet programme on the telly and there was a girl on there who I thought was about my weight. But she was actually 2 st heavier. And she was the same height as me. This makes me think that I'm really not seeing what other people are seeing, which is a bit scary.

Basically, I know I'm not really going to damage myself. I can't imagine I will ever be one of those poor women who have heart failure or whatever. I do eat quite a lot really, frequently will eat sweets, some chocolate etc. So it can't really be a problems can it, if I do that? If you think I'm just overreacting, please say, it will make me feel better!

As someone who had a dreadful ed, it was a gradual thing for me and a case of over-shooting the mark a lot of the time wrt keeping my weight 'under control'.

I would be careful.

Excercise is good for your body, so it would be better if you could up your calorie intake to maintain a decent weight. If the thought of that is anathema, then you need to get some help. It is easier to stop this now than before you get (potentially) ill. I was aware of what was going on too, but wasn't willing or able to seek help until I was very poorly.

Anorexia can be without the seeing someone fat in the mirror, it can just be a low appetite. I had that when I felt out of control, I am 5'1" and was under six stone.

Appetite stimulants are things with high water content, like lettuce or you could try foods with a little more protein?

Perhaps the best place to get advice would be an ed charity or meeting?

I would listen to Nicky more than myself, as she will be able to give you first-hand, personal experiences of what it is like to develop or have an ED. I have worked as a nurse for a period on an ED unit

On a practical note, if you feel it manageable, try and plan your meals so that you are eating 3 meals a day (1 must be cooked) and 2 or 3 snacks

A meal should consist of a carbohydrate, a portion of protein and veg or fruit

If this feels completely scary or not-doable, or you struggle to implement it, I would suggest that you take the next step and ask for some professional help

Best wishes

I'm reluctant to look at things specifically about EDs because it might make me think there's a problem when there isn't one really.

Not really sure what you want from us then, Brahms.

From your post, I would say that you are at risk of developing an ED. That is a problem in itself.

I knew I was very thin, I knew I wasn't eating enough to maintain health, I kind of kidded-on that I wanted to stop, but I couldn't - wasn't willing or able. And I didn't until I was hospitalised and had a tube shoved up my nose. It took YEARS of therapy and bloody hard work to recover. You can avoid all that. If you are willing and able.

GOod luck.

I remember your other threads- you asked about a delayed period and if your weight loss was the cause.

I think what is clear is that the fact you are asking again about this- and you have on other threads too- shows that you are overly obsessed with your weight and body image. That in itself should worry you- to ask a bunch of virtual strangers if you have an ED!

How much do you weigh?

About 7 stone?

I am an inch shorter than you and my weight is just under 8 stone- around 48-49 kls. My BMI is around 19- 19.5.

I wear a size 10 or 8 tops at times. You do sound too thin.

Have you counted your calories? You should be getting around 2000 a day or slightly less.

If you are agonising over whether you can eat something when you haven't got an overweight issue, then it does soun as if you have an ED.

"Basically, I know I'm not really going to damage myself. I can't imagine I will ever be one of those poor women who have heart failure or whatever. I do eat quite a lot really, frequently will eat sweets, some chocolate etc. So it can't really be a problems can it, if I do that? If you think I'm just overreacting, please say, it will make me feel better!"

Your other posts were very focused on image, etc. And to be honest, that paragraph is a little bit of denial-speak. Almost trying to seperate hard-core ED from 'dabbling'.

Are you half a stone underweight? Or are you half a stone under the lowest healthy weight for your height? There is a real but subtle difference.

I think you want everyone to tell you that you are over reacting, but to be honest, you have asked so many times on these boards that you do seem to have an issue with your weight

If you remain underweight for a considerable length of time you have a high chance of developing osteoporosis, and you won't know you have it until the damage is done, for the sake of your future health face up to your problem now, please.

(I have experience of a very similar issue in my own family).

I am going to be absolutely straight with you here and say I think there is a problem or at least the start of one.

Firstly, you are spending way too much time thinking about food, you panic when it comes to eating, you clearly have a distorted body image, you admit you have lost persepctive on portion amounts and what a reasonable weight is.

I think the exercise is a red herring to be quite honest with you, I am not sure you are being straight with yourself about why you are doing it and i agree with you, you can ill afford the calories. I think this is a weight control measure.

I think that your post is because you are worried, you know yourself and you know if something is not right. Eating disorders are not about what weight you are per se, it is more about your attitude and relationship with food. You seem, from your post, to obsess about it a little too much and you seem preoccupied with food and body shape. I suspect you do eat all sorts of different foods but I do think you probably have very small amounts and mentally are adding them up.

It is interesting that you have posted here before about your BMI (i haven't read these) so I know you think there is a problem. Clearly you do not have a healthy and functioning relationship with food so I really do think you need to seek some qualified advice but my gut reaction to this is you do have a problem in this area.

I do apologise if you think me harsh but I thought you deserved a really honest answer.

If you are still having periods, you haven't done yourself any real damage yet! Don't panic.

I didn't have periods for four years due to be underweight (though not from an eating disorder, from work stress/burn out) and once I got back up to a normal weight (which was pretty easy once I started living a calmer life) they came back.

What clothes size are you?

No, I don't think anyone's being too harsh. I know it's a bit weird to post again about it, but I have a different view on it now, maybe more insight.

I have had past issues with anxiety/depression so in a sense I am used to not trusting my own mind. As I said, I don't think I can trust my own perspective any more because things don't add up. But relying on the opinions of people I know is difficult as well. For a start, it's hard admitting in RL the extent of some things, especially if everyone thinks you are very in control. I could never say to anyone in RL what I said in my OP. When someone says something negative, I can always find an excuse e.g. DP just finds me sexier when I'm a bit bigger it's nothing to do with health, or friend X has very different views about lots of things to me but it doesn't make her right, so why should she be right now? etc. But it gets to a point where it's quite a few people, so you have to start doubting yourself.

I am half a stone below the minimum weight I should be. To have a BMI of 18.5 I would have to be 7st 13, and am 7st 6. Clothes size, 6-8 depending on shops. I used to be about 8st 7. Even though it's a healthy weight I always hated being that size, and could never go up to that again.

weight and BMI isn't everything- some very fit people have high BMIs as it doesn't differentiate between fat, muscle and bone.

However, the fact that you are worried and that food is an issue for you seems to be the most important factor.

Could you face aiming to gain half a stone, by eating healthy and nutritious foods and adding snacks?

I'm sorry that you have these issues - but I'm glad that you're starting to face up to what several of us tried to point out to you in your first posts.

You are too thin.

What concerns me is hearing you talk about doing exercise to stimulate your appetite when, in reality, exercise will only burn more calories.

You are, IMO, overly obsessed with staying thin. Why worry about getting to 8 stone 7? I don't think anyone is telling you that you have to go that far, just that your current weight is too low. Why not just focus on putting half a stone on?

You say you eat lots - but what do you eat? What is a typical day's food? What did you eat yesterday and what have you eaten today?

I quite often skip breakfast, but when I have it usually a glass of smoothie. Today I had a slice of wholemeal toast too. Lunch = pretty much always a sandwich grabbed on the hoof, dinner I try to have vegetables with some form of protein, fish or quorn or sometimes meat. I will also sometimes eat sweets and things in the day. That would be on a busy day when at work. On a weekend day I am often a bit more rubbish and will only have snacks (healthyish ones) and maybe one 'proper' meal. Walking to work probably = 3 miles a day, and I will also often do an exercise DVD before/after work.

So is really not that bad, I think, looking at it now. I have days where I eat enough, like that, and days where I don't.

I know I probably have an unrealistic view of what is a good size for me to be, which pretty much minimises all the girl bits - boobs, tummy, thighs. It's not based at all on what I think men like or what I see in the meedja or anything like that.

Brahms, do you realise that most of what you've described is basically water? You need a balanced diet with carbohydrates, protein, etc.

You are doing 3 miles of walking and extra excercise on some liquidised fruit, veg & piece of fish.

Brahms - you posted asking if anyone thought you have a problem - all the posts after that were along the lines that you have. There is lots of advice. You are now at 21.57 talking yourself round to thinking that you dont have a problem.

You are not eating enough. And I bet what you haven't written down is your portion sizes. I would put money on it that they are small - and that you're buying low fat versions of everything, cooking with no fat, steaming veg, etc.

Please, please accept that you have a problem here. Your phrase about minimising 'girls bits' is chilling. You are a woman, you should have a womanly body, not the body of a child. You are trying to control this by restricting your food and overdoing your exercise.

And I say overdoing your exercise because although there is nothing wrong with the amount you're doing - on the basis of the fuel your body is getting, it is too much exercise.

I suffered with all sorts of EDs (anorexia, bulimia and obsessive exercising) in my teens and twenties and to me, Brahms, the most obvious sign that you have a problem is the fact that you're concerned, panicky and feeling out of control about food / weight.

It doesn't matter what your BMI or weight is - if the thought of eating makes you panicky, or you've forgotten what a 'normal' portion size is, then you have a problem. That doesn't mean "you are dangerously anorexic" or anything, simply that there's a problem that needs to be faced up to and managed before you can have a healthy, confident and positive approach to food, weight and body image.

For me, 10 to 15 years after the worst of the ED days, the best sign of me being healthy (ie having a healthy attitude to food / weight) is that I don't think about food, calories or my weight very often. (To be fair I'm pregnant at the moment so that has an impact) I simply eat healthily to make sure my body is well fuelled for what I want it to do. That's what food is for.

If you want the advice of someone who's been where you are, I'd say you need to face up to the fact that, through all of your posts, you are clearly asking for help while trying to kid yourself that you don't need it. That's OK - it's a scary thing to face up to - but it's not going to get you anywhere.

Accept that you do need help, otherwise you wouldn't keep posting, worrying and talking about it all the time. Contact the Eating Disorders association (www.b-eat.co.uk) and talk to someone. They should be able to find you help - whether a counsellor, cognitive behavioural therapist or nutritionist - from some you can trust and with whom you feel comfortable enough to be honest, open and get on with your recovery. (Personally I found a combination of counselling and hypnotherapy worked well for me)

Recovery from EDs is a life-long game. You're never cured, you simply manage it. I'm proud to say I've been managing mine relatively successfully for 15 years now and have a pretty 'normal' body size, BMI, and self image. Most importantly, food and body size no longer rule my life. I hope you can find a way to get to that point too. But you can't do that until you admit to yourself that you're trying to get help but not asking for it directly.

Go to the people who can help you, and ask for their help directly, and then be very, very proud of yourself for taking the hardest and most important step.

Good luck.

Whether you have disordered eating behaviour or not is for a doctor to determine. However, you are clearly underweight and that is a health-problem in itself. The normal healthy BMI range is from 20 - 25. Below 18.5 is classed as clinically underweight. In between 18.5 and 20 is a grey area... some people naturally fall in that zone without restricting their food-intake or overexercising and are in good health. Others are only in that zone by dieting and they are generally not in good health

Underweight has cumulative health effects. A relatively young person's body is quite resilient in the short-term but over time they will start to see medical problems. Most serious are those to do with malnutrition.... to stay underweight you are, by defnition, malnourished and you can expect the lack of energy & nutrients in your diet to lead to problems such as anxiety, depression, behavioural problems (including disordered eating) weakened immune system, reproduction problems, digestion problems, anaemia, skeletal weakness (early onset osteoporosis), dental problems, skin/hair issues.

If you think you have an eating disorder I would suggest you go to see another doctor but this time take with you an accurate food diary. Also, explain about the way you are feeling... print out and take this thread along if necessary. Or alternatively, make a conscious effort to gain weight... at least to a BMI of 20. If you can do that successfully then you will be in much better physical and mental health.

Your normal food intake is what I'd eat over 3-4 weeks if I wanted to lose a few pounds- like now after Xmas!

I bet the calories don't add up to more than about 800-900- less than half what you need.

The sweets etc are a red herring- they are high in calories, but you won't eat anough to put weight on and they aren't a healthy option ayway.

Just to add that your typical day's food contain NO CALCIUM PRACTICALLY.
I speak as someone who has early stages of osteoporosis- Ihave no risk factors except naturally low weight, years of not eating dairy and breast feeding 2 DCs.
If you do nothing else at least take a calcium supplement and try to get some yoghurt or cheese into yourself.

Brahms, I think Snowtiger has said everything you need to hear.

I was like you recently, food was "medicine" rather than enjoyable, and I would eat ok, but would skip meals and make excuses like "too busy" and I genuinely believed myself. I also wondered about exercise and whether I "should" weigh more etc. I too had fruit smoothies, believing them to be healthy, but there is not enough fuel in them.

BUT it wasn't until I started counselling (for something else entirely) and casually mentioned that food was a low priority, that BOOM, I went straight back into anorexia of my teen years. Weird really.

But my point is, you sound like me, in denial, and although you think your symptoms are mild, they bother you and you need the confidence to believe in yourself that you can be happier in yourself. Comfortable in your skin so to speak.

An ed doesn't just happen. It is a symptom of an unhappy person. Like being thin helps you to hide away, or disappear even. Or just help you be in control of your life when it feels out of control. Does any of these things ring any bells?

You have had loads of good advice on this thread, all basically saying the same thing.

Please now believe that we are right!!! And go and take a deep breath, and pick up the phone to arrange some help, whether it is the GP or counselling speciallising in ed or b-eat.

HTH