OK. Talk to me about possible eating disorder

[BrahmsThirdRacket]

I've posted on here before about weight etc (have namechanged since then), about my low BMI and whether it was 'normal' etc. I was very resentful of people talking about eating disorders, but am starting to try and look at that possibility more realistically now. Also, was on a thread last night that made me think.

My BMI is 17.6, making me about half a stone underweight. I'm 5 ft 4. My DP was the first to point it out, but more people are saying the same thing now. I went to the GP after I was advised to on here. He said I was about half a stone underweight, but he wasn't really worried about my health - my periods are fine and I have no health issues or anything weird going on with my body.

Sometimes I think I am just a slim person, and it's normal etc. I know I'm underweight, and have a strong desire to remain looking like this which shouldn't be right. But I don't go to crazy lengths to stay this way - I don't make myself puke, I don't starve myself, live on coffee etc. I will eat something if I really want it, even if it is the most calorific thing in the world. But I realise now that I have lost perspective on what a reasonable weight/amount of food to eat is. When I'm thinking about what to eat it panics me a bit, because I don't want to eat too much. I'm constantly working out what I've eaten that day and whether I can 'afford' to eat more.

Before Christmas I decided the best way to deal with it would be to do more exercise, to stimulate my appetite, and eat more. But what's actually happened is I'm not eating that much more, and am burning calories I probably can't afford. I don't think I have lost anymore weight though.

I was watching some diet programme on the telly and there was a girl on there who I thought was about my weight. But she was actually 2 st heavier. And she was the same height as me. This makes me think that I'm really not seeing what other people are seeing, which is a bit scary.

Basically, I know I'm not really going to damage myself. I can't imagine I will ever be one of those poor women who have heart failure or whatever. I do eat quite a lot really, frequently will eat sweets, some chocolate etc. So it can't really be a problems can it, if I do that? If you think I'm just overreacting, please say, it will make me feel better!

Actually Snowtiger, you have got me thinking.

When you say "Recovery from EDs is a life-long game. You're never cured, you simply manage it", what does this mean for you? How do you manage it? How do you live comfortably with food? I am uncomfortable atm, but I am in the middle of counselling, so loads of horrid memories are with me, and food is an issue to cope. BUT when all is done, and i feel better, what is normal?

I mean, even before the counselling, food was labelled either "good" or "bad", and I constantly had food in my mind, with amounts I had eaten, calories, good and bad, etc. Exhausting! Brahms, does this sound like you?

So, snowtiger, please don't answer if you don't wish to, I don't want to upset you. But it would be nice to shed some light on it, so I (and hopefully Brahms) can gauge what is "normal" or "managed" ed.

Two I'm very happy to share my experience but don't for a minute think I've got it 'right' in any way! If I had all the answers I'd have written a best selling book about it by now

I still live in a mental world of 'good' and 'bad' food, of fat days and thin, etc. but for me, I know I'm doing OK when I can see all of this objectively and not beat myself up about it, get it out of proportion, or have an emotional response to it. I remind myself that food is fuel, and its job is to keep me healthy so that I can live a long, happy, healthy life with my family.

I'm 7 months pregnant at the moment, and have freaked out in the last week at the amount of weight I've put on because (unlike first pregnancy) this time I've used it as an excuse to eat as much chocolate / cheese / butter as I like, without beating myself up. However I've just reached the tipping point of knowing that if I don't rein it in, I'll feel awful when I've given birth and will want to diet.

Now, for me, a 'diet' is something I can never do again - it's too dangerous. The control issues come back and I start to get a kick out of not eating, obsess about how much weight I've lost etc. So I have to catch myself before I get to that point and think "OK kiddo, rein it in" so that I can cut down (not out) the 'bad' foods and focus on what I AM eating (healthy foods, low GI, wholegrain, lots of fruit & veg, lean protein, organic / local, fresh, well balanced meals etc) rather than what I'm not.

Sorry if I'm rambling!!

The biggest thing for me, I think, in 'managing' an ED is breaking the connection between food and emotions, and that comes through self-awareness and unflinching honesty. I know if I'm eating because I'm bored / pissed off, and I admit it to myself. I know if I'm being 'silly' (2 toblerones & a wispa in one go) and admit it to myself. Then I think "What's that all about then?" and deal with the emotions that are the problem - the food is ALWAYS the symptom - in a healthier way whether that's talking to a friend or writing in my journal to get some clarity.

Yes, I like to look nice, and I'm always happier with how I look when I'm a size 12 rather than a 14 / 16, but equally, I know that being thin doesn't make me happy - more that when I'm happy, I happen to be thinner, because I'm not self-medicating my emotions with chocolate / cake etc.

I hope that makes sense - I guess in a nutshell what I'm saying is that 'managing it' is about managing your emotions and dealing with them in a healthy way rather than trying to silence them or make them better with food (or lack of, which is just as addictive.)

The most important thing is to be honest with myself, and I know that I will probably have that voice saying 'you've eaten too much, you're fat, you have no self-control' in my head forever. But these days I can tell it to shut up, if it's talking bollocks, or sometimes, hear what it's saying, admit that it's right (if I've been overdoing the toblerones on a daily basis) and do something healthy, balanced & sensible about it rather than going from one extreme to the other and reacting by not eating for a week.

EDs are the hardest addiction to overcome. Try telling a heroin addict they can't give up their fix, but instead that they have to have 3 well balanced hits a day.

It's not easy, but it's do-able. It comes down to self-awareness, self-honesty, and recognising that it's ALL about emotions & self esteem - the food / weight are just symptoms, not the problem. When you can deal with your emotions & self-esteem in a health way, food just becomes enjoyable fuel again, rather than the enemy.

Sorry for writing 'War & Peace' here, but you did ask...!

Fabulous post, Snowtiger and an inspiring story of recovery

Best wishes for the arrival of DC2

Thanks bernard, wondered if I'd just killed the thread there with my rambling!

Brahms is any of this helping at all? I do hope so.

Brahms, my mother developed anorexia in her thirties, she controlled it to the extent that she didn't end up at death's door but she did suffer fractures due to osteoporosis.

It also affected her children, we all remember the tension surrounding social occassions that involved food and we all have differing issues around food and body image to this day.

My Mum has never tasted a cake or pudding made by me, I know she can't help it but it does hurt a bit. It is also a bit annoying when I feel fat (size 12) next to my Mum (small size 8 in her late sixties).

Even if you think you are shielding your children from your ED you are not.

My Mum's diet improved when she admitted to herself that she had an eating disorder, she has it under control and has her own way of handling it.

PS My Dad was a GP but didn't really tackle the issue.

There have been some humorous moments over the years and we tease Mum about it all now, eg. the time she turned orange from eating too many raw carrots, her terrible wind due to massive cabbage comsumption, the time DH accidentally saw her in the bath and said she looked like a California Raisin!.

Thanks everyone for your advice, it is really interesting/bit scary. I have always thought of eating disorders as things that have to be really extreme, otherwise you can't have that much of a problem. I went to a private all-girls school where, unsurprisingly, there were quite a lot of EDs. There were some that were really bad, throwing up everything they ate (which was barely anything) and being really really neurotic about all food. So I have found it difficult to think of myself as having one because I'm not that bad.

I can't remember who it was who said about thinking of food as medicine, but that is exactly how I feel about it. I only really enjoy eating about 5% of the time. It sounds weird, but I wish I could just eat when I wanted to, and not rely on food to stay alive! It would be great if they invented pills that gave you all the right things but didn't involve actual eating.

About 2 months ago I tried to make an effort to educate myself about food, what has protein, carbs etc. because I really didn't have a clue. But all that happened was that I now find I can put myself off almost any food if I think about it enough, except fruit and veg and, weirdly, things like sweets (even though they are, obviously, full of shit).

I don't have children, and can't imagine having them in the near future, or maybe ever, for lots of reasons (I am 27), including the fact that I can imagine absolutely hating being pregnant and my body changing like that, and I am worried that I would accidentally starve the bump. DP is always telling me I would make a great mum (although it probably won't be with him tbh - age gap) because I do really like children and am good with them. But I hate the idea of my body actually having a function re having children. I had a very early miscarriage about 8 months ago, and felt really relieved about it.

Brahms, I'm glad this is at least helping you think through the issues behind your attitude to food, your body, and self-esteem etc.

I also went to an all girls' school and you're right, it's a damaging environment at times with everyone obsessed with being thin and showing how controlled they are by not eating. I also have a mother whose relationship with food is troubling to say the least - when I eventually plucked up the courage to tell her I needed help for my EDs she laughed and said "don't be ridiculous, you're just like me, we're normal, that's not an ED" and she still truly believes that her attitude to food is normal despite the fact that she eats everything in the fridge at the weekend and every Monday swears to eat nothing but fruit for the rest of her life.

Your relationship with your body - not liking its functional role, for example - is a little concerning though, and if nothing else I think you might find it helpful to explore this with a counsellor / cognitive behavioural therapist or someone. Personally when I had my first son I found that I loved my body more because of what an amazing machine / piece of kit it was! It had grown, fed and pushed out a little person! It helped me respect it as a brilliant design and 'nurturing machine' rather than as somethign that was all related to thinness / beauty etc. But that's just me - not saying you 'should' feel like that at all.

I always worried about having daughters and passing my EDs on to them, and deliberately put off having children until I felt I was managing my EDs successfully. As it turns out, nature has given me one boy and I'm pregnant with another, so can't see myself having a daughter now (2 pregnancies is enough for me, no matter how great the 'machine' is!!) and in a way I'm relieved, so I know what you mean in some ways.

I know this sounds incredibly bossy, (i've been a life coach among other things, it rears its head at times!!) but I'd love for you to find a way to make peace with your body, find a happy, gentle relationship with both its appearance and its function and the way it enables you to live your life and do the things you love. If you can do that, I'm sure you'll find that fuelling it with healthy, enjoyable, tasty, fresh food will become a pleasure. I hope so.

Good luck, and please, do let us know how you get on.

OP- you need to get help.
Your latest post shows that you really do have an incredibly warped attitude both to food and your body image.

I have followed your posts from last time and it is only now that you are coming out with stuff which shows beyond doubt that you do have an issue with this.

Maybenow you can stop being in denial and get help?
Sorry to sound harsh, but you need a wake-up call.

Firstly, snowtiger, thank you for your insight, it really did help to see it from another angle, and I hope it helps the OP too. I am looking forward to getting to the stage where food is nice and neutral, I am nearly there seeing as I think I am about half way through counselling. Anyway, I especially liked the bit about breaking the connection between food and emotion. Yes, certainly is important, I am working on that. I really hope it helps Brahms too.

Brahms, I hope you do find some help. Some time back, I posted on mental health about my fear of opening up to the counsellor about my ed. I was terrified. But a very kind MNer encouraged me to go for it. And you know what? It was nothing like I feared. I thought my counsellor would be shocked or surprised. Certainly judgemental.

NOT SO! She was wonderful and calming. SHe helped me to understand the an ed is just a symptom of being unhappy, and it is a coping mechanism to deal with life. She has been wonderful, instead of focussing on food or ed, she actually doesn't talk about it at all. And she doesn't let me dwell on it either.

Instead, she focusses on helping me cope with life issues. She knows that when I find my inner confidence and can deal with life, then my ed will cease to be important. I will enjoy life, and enjoy being me.

So I urge you to talk talk talk ... find a counsellor you are comfortable with and go for it. It is your right to find happiness within yourself. To like yourself.

Please post again, and let us know how you are today.

Snowtiger don't make the assumption that boys are immune to ED's. My brother is the most controlled about food (and thinest) out of my mother's three children.

Just wanted to ask if you have children? Your attitude towards eating and exercise and body image is going to affect them, if for no other reason than to protect them admit you have a problem. Which, to answer the question, I do think you do.

NN- the OP uis 27, doesn't have children a nd doesn't want any.

Wiggly you're quite right, I know boys can suffer from EDs too, didn't mean to infer that they are immune at all - for me though, the big worry was about seeing a daughter as a 'carbon copy' of myself (as my mother did about me) and inflicting my own body issues on her by expecting her to be just like me.

Hopefully my two boys will grow up with a healthy attitude to food, their bodies, and eating.

Twoisplenty I'm glad my post helped, and it's great to hear that you're doing so well in learning to manage your EDs. You're spot on - when you're confident in yourself, happy and able to enjoy your life, EDs cease to play such a huge role.

"I wish I could just eat when I wanted to, and not rely on food to stay alive! It would be great if they invented pills that gave you all the right things but didn't involve actual eating."

Brahms, putting it very bluntly here, but you really seem to have an eating disorder, and I wonder too if something is askew with your perception of your body and your lack of acceptance of your 'girl parts' and the processes that a female body is designed to accomplish (pregnancy).

Snowtiger, I have a mum whose relationship with food is just like your mum's. Boom or bust, no happy medium. She thought my ideal weight (at 5'6") was 7st, what I weighed on my wedding day.

My exH has an ED, I have long suspected -- never eats breakfast unless a doughnut-pigout occasionally, never eats lunch (feels very superior for his superb self control) and exercises beyond the bounds of sanity (running long distances daily even in freezing weather, etc.) It's not confined to women. He was chubby as a boy.

sorry if I sound a bit blunt Snowtiger, I have conflicting feelings about the whole thing, I feel a bit angry with my Mum and sorry for her too, luckily she is honest about it all these days and has never really commented on our weight. None of us, even my Mum, have weighing scales in our houses.

You are convincing me that there's a problem with my attitudes, which I did sort of know already. But I still feel quite scared about the idea of talking to someone or changing things. I don't want to change the way I look, I don't want to put on any weight. But I don't want to lose any either. I found a photo of me a couple of years ago and I just looked absolutely massive (to me), it was horrible. I could never be that size again. I like my body the way it is now. I would have to eat a lot to put on weight. I still think I eat a normal amount now. I don't understand how people eat more.

I don't feel that my attitudes to food are really affecting my life. I've got a good job, I am a confident in my own abilities etc. I do enjoy my life. I know there must be some sort of reason for my attitudes, but can't trace it. Maybe once my biological clock kicks in I'll feel better about babies.

I am going to start taking supplements though, esp calcium.

Well, there's a good bit of "I'm fine but..." and also "I'm not fine but..." throughout your posts.

It's not really about what you weigh, Brahms. Numbers on the scale mean nothing. I was 7st in my early 20s because I ate what was put in front of me; when I ate what I put in front of myself I gained weight and haven't stressed about weight since then. And I wasn't stressed about weighing 7st and being a stick back when that was the case. If you think it's all about what you weigh, then you probably have an ed though.

An eating disorder has physical symptoms, but it's what you're telling yourself in your head that matters and may need correction. You could have a bmi of 21 and be miserably unhappy about your body and controlling about your food, making up rules for yourself about food, panicking about meals, being unbalanced in general about eating, thinking rigid thoughts -- and you would have an eating disorder.

Why supplements?

Everything you need is in actual food.

mathanxiety is absolutely right - you don't need to take supplements you need to eat.

I don't feel that my attitudes to food are really affecting my life. I've got a good job, I am a confident in my own abilities etc. I do enjoy my life. I know there must be some sort of reason for my attitudes, but can't trace it. Maybe once my biological clock kicks in I'll feel better about babies.

Brahms- you are really in denial. Everything you write just digs the hole a bit deeper for you...but you can't see it. We can.

Are you seriously saying that you want to wait another 12 years or more until your biological kicks in- so that you what? Can cope with the idea of a distended belly?

A good job and confidence in your ability does not equal good mental health.

You have a problem- use your obvious intelligence to face that fact.

Can't you see that you are repeating a pattern here? You ask for help- people give it- then you back-track and try to go into denial. This has been going on for months- I have followed your posts.

Stop being too proud to ask for help. Stop kidding yourself. Face up to the facts.

I would hazard a guess that the way you're eating is to stop yourself 'presenting' as a woman as opposed to a girl. You don't want a womanly body. You don't want to get pregnant. You don't want to allow your body to grow with a pregnancy. I wonder, too (although apologies if this is way too personal) if your choice of a much older partner is also part of this? i.e. he is a father figure rather than an equal sexual (mating) partner?

Please, please, please listen to us all on here. No-one has said anything different to yyou. We are all urging you to do something about what is clearly an eating disorder.

No matter what the reasons - you need to eat more, and you need to get a better, healthier perspective about you and your body and what you should be eating.

BrahmsThirdRacket - from what you've described yourself as eating, you do NOT eat a normal amount. You eat too little and often the wrong stuff. And you do give FAR too much thought to what you are eating and whether it might cause you to gain weight, including replacing sweets and chocolate for proper food, rather than eating them as an enjoyable occasional snack in addition to a balanced diet. You are totally uptight about food and your body image. I think you have pretty classic thoughts for someone with an eating disorder - that other people are trying to control you if they talk about your weight; that it's your fat friends who make comments because they're jealous or have a problem with food themselves; that you looked disgusting when you were a normal weight; that you are still alive and walking around, so there's nothing wrong with you; that taking food supplements and exercising will solve the problem caused by not eating quite enough each day; that you don't understand how people can eat more (despite the fact you clearly used to, since you have not always been this thin); etc. The minority of anorexics starve themselves to death. The majority live for donkeys years with the problem if they don't get over it altogether, and there are varying degrees of it, from those who do intermittently get it severely enough to need treatment to those who live just under the radar all their lives and then realise too late that they too did damage to their bodies by their behaviour, when they become hideously wrinkly, prematurely aged women with stooped backs, constant pain and a tendency to fracture their bones for no apparent reason. Your current thinking is as short termist as that of a "tanorexic", who thinks that a tan makes her look and feel good about herself, and she just can't believe that it could do that much harm in the long run - until she does eventually end up with the skin of an elderly elephant, or die of skin cancer.

By all means risk your health and sanity with an obsession to maintain an unnaturally low weight, but don't try to persuade yourself that what you are doing is not that harmful, really. And if you do want to get out of your current unhealthy pattern of eating, you can't do this on your own, because you have clearly lost sight of what normal eating is, so are too terrified of overdoing it and ending up "fat." You need help to get over your issues (rather than just feeding them by talking about them a lot).

Being scared about the idea of talking to someone about this in RL, or changing things, is a fear that you will somehow lose the control you think you have over this aspect of your life.

Brahms- did you post on the Relationships forum a while back- about your relationship with an older man- you were asking how to end it? and that you didn't want children, and that you were going to move away to a job that you really wanted? Forgive me if it wasn't you. If it was, what came out was that the relationship was not exactly a good one. This might have some bearing on where you are now with your eating.

If you re-read your first post here, it goes like this...

you make a statement about how little you eat- then you refute it being a problem. You make another statement about what could be seen as a aspect of an ED, then say oh, but it's not really a problem. And your entire post is like that- a statement about yourself which appears to show symptoms of an ED, then a counter-statement saying no, I don't really have an ED.

It is a prolonged discussion with yourself - first acknowledging the problems, then defending yourself !

I suspect that because you are an academic, you feel that your intelligence somehow makes you immune to psychological disorders. You seem to be looking for a way-out of accepting what everyone here is telling you.

All this stuff about exercising to stimulate your appetite- it's nonsense. No one should need t o stimulate their appetite- unless they are depressed, and then they should be treated for the depression.

Actually, that is quite a good analogy now that I think on it- if someone was depressed, you'd treat the depression and they would start eating again, normally. With you, if you treat your emotional issues, you will start eating again properly.

You need to go into pyschotherapy and find out why you don't want to look like a woman, why you baulk at the idea of being pregnant, why you need to control yourself through eating so little.