OK. Talk to me about possible eating disorder

[BrahmsThirdRacket]

I've posted on here before about weight etc (have namechanged since then), about my low BMI and whether it was 'normal' etc. I was very resentful of people talking about eating disorders, but am starting to try and look at that possibility more realistically now. Also, was on a thread last night that made me think.

My BMI is 17.6, making me about half a stone underweight. I'm 5 ft 4. My DP was the first to point it out, but more people are saying the same thing now. I went to the GP after I was advised to on here. He said I was about half a stone underweight, but he wasn't really worried about my health - my periods are fine and I have no health issues or anything weird going on with my body.

Sometimes I think I am just a slim person, and it's normal etc. I know I'm underweight, and have a strong desire to remain looking like this which shouldn't be right. But I don't go to crazy lengths to stay this way - I don't make myself puke, I don't starve myself, live on coffee etc. I will eat something if I really want it, even if it is the most calorific thing in the world. But I realise now that I have lost perspective on what a reasonable weight/amount of food to eat is. When I'm thinking about what to eat it panics me a bit, because I don't want to eat too much. I'm constantly working out what I've eaten that day and whether I can 'afford' to eat more.

Before Christmas I decided the best way to deal with it would be to do more exercise, to stimulate my appetite, and eat more. But what's actually happened is I'm not eating that much more, and am burning calories I probably can't afford. I don't think I have lost anymore weight though.

I was watching some diet programme on the telly and there was a girl on there who I thought was about my weight. But she was actually 2 st heavier. And she was the same height as me. This makes me think that I'm really not seeing what other people are seeing, which is a bit scary.

Basically, I know I'm not really going to damage myself. I can't imagine I will ever be one of those poor women who have heart failure or whatever. I do eat quite a lot really, frequently will eat sweets, some chocolate etc. So it can't really be a problems can it, if I do that? If you think I'm just overreacting, please say, it will make me feel better!

I am just a very self-sufficient person. It's how I've grown up. I have got better though - I do let him know how I feel about him, and I do talk to him about things that have upset me, like if something shit has happened at work (like today). I will cry in front of him sometimes and let him comfort me - which he does. But then I always feel a bit shit about it afterwards and feel like I'm being manipulative even if I was genuinely upset. I do worry about pushing people too far and being too demanding, in case they then decide I'm not worth the effort.

Am on waiting list for an appointment. Thanks everyone.

Good news! I admire your courage, it will be worth it. Well done, and I wish you all the best. Let us know how you get on if you want to.

Been back to the dr at the last one's request, although this time I saw a different one with a specialism in EDs. She's referred me for an ECG and blood tests at the hospital. I'm not sure I'll be able to do the blood tests as I hate them so much, but will do the ECG - that's just little stickers, isn't it? She also talked to me more about eating etc, saying that I have to put on weight first and then address the issues after that, because if I do it now I won't be thinking straight.

I'm a bit scared, esp about the hospital stuff. She was also saying that any BMI below 20 counts as 'unusually low' and mine (17.5) is 'dangerously low', apparently. Surely 20 is not the limit for normal?? I have never had a BMI of 20 in my life.

I guess below 20 is on the borderline of normal and underweight, so the majority of people would have a BMI well above that. However, "unusual" is very different from "dangerous" - the former implies this may be normal for the person concerned but is unusual in the general population, so could flag a minor issue, and the latter states quite clearly that it isn't healthy. I would have the blood tests if I were you, so that you can get a clear idea of how malnourished your body currently is and to what extent this is affecting your body chemistry. Well done for taking this seriously, and don't chicken out of it, now!

Normal BMI is 18.5 to 25.
Mine was about 19 when I saw a specilaist- not for anything weight related and he said my BMI was "perfect" at 19.

I'd also take your drs point that weight first/talk later is not necessarily right- IMO you need to talk/therpay and then the weight will come back on.

That's what I thought purplepeony (am still on the waiting list for this private therapist). But she says that all the new research says that you have to get up to a minimum-OK weight so you can think straight and be logical. But that's difficult. Apparently I should be aiming for three meals a day and three snacks . But she says I will not be able to do that straight off and that's OK (just as well).

Re BMI, I don't think I have ever had a BMI of over 20, at my heaviest I think it was 19 or something. I genuinely think I have light bones.

I know I should have the blood tests really, but they really shit me up. I could take some Valium before I go, but that would bugger with the ECG reading I guess. I will just have to suck it up.

I ate quite well today, almost three proper meals. Sort of. And managed to resist the urge to walk home from dinner (about 2 miles) and got a taxi instead. Feel fidgety though. Grr.

DP must be informed, I suppose. But ECGs and blood tests are not very sexy - he deals with ill people all day, I don't expect he wants to have to be responsible for one the rest of the time.

Glad you are getting help, hopefully your self suffiency will help you with this.

Could you find something to occupy yourself that isn't so active? That might take away the fidgetty-ness (yeah I know, non-existent word)

DP must be informed, I suppose. But ECGs and blood tests are not very sexy - he deals with ill people all day, I don't expect he wants to have to be responsible for one the rest of the time.

This is such a sad statement Brahms- who is talking about the "rest of time"?- And i thought you knew that this relationship had a sell-by date anyway?

If this man loves you, surely he wants to share your life- the bad as well as good parts of it?
Why do you continue to put yourself down and make out that you are a "nuisance" of some sort?

Blood tests and scans aren't sexy? Sorry but that is such an odd thing to say. Illness is part of normal life- if you are in a relaitonship where you cannot share this type of thing, then maybe you need to get out of it- and find a man who accepts you for what you are-instead of acting as if you are superhuman.

Is this relationship based purely on sex and image- your image of what makes you sexy- rather than deep feelings?

I hope you get sorted. Bloood tests are nothing honestly- 30 seconds and it's all over. No one likes having a needle shoved in their arms, but as someone who once had them weekly for ages, you do get used to it- and it really doesn't hurt that much. Tell them that you are nervous and they will possibly use a smaller needle.

The relationship probably does have a sell-by date, but I don't want it to end because he's bored with me. He says he loves me, and I think he does up to a point. But a lot of it is probably to do with the fact that I am younger, and there isn't anything to put a strain on our relationship - no kids, no boring domestic stuff, nothing to fight about really (I know it's unrealistic). I'm not sure how long the 'love' would last if something difficult came up. He is not very good at understanding psychological problems, having never suffered from any himself. He thinks people should just snap out of it. I think he would be very frustrated about this because it's not something he can 'fix'. The GP asked if I had someone who I could rely on to make sure I eat at these certain times and not let me get out of it. But he has so much responsibility all the time that I don't want to put an extra burden on him. It would just end up as something to fight over, as he gets more and more frustrated with me not making myself better.

Brahms- I know you won't want to hear this, but I think you should seriously consider ending this relationship.

The fact that he is not "bored" with you yet is not a reason to stay!

Everything you describe shows that you feel unloved and that this man does not offer you what most people would consider basic caring. If he cannot be bothered to help you with a health problem- be it physical /emotional/psychological, or what ever, then that really does not say much about the depth of his love.

Lots os men/women have demanding jobs but that doesn't mean they cannot show love and caring towards their partenrs when the going gets tough. However, are you sharing your problesm with him to give him the chance to care, or are you hiding them in case you seem to be a "nuisance"?

As you rightly say, if you had normal day to day pressures such as kids etc etc then it might not survive anyway.

However, how much of that is true and how much is a just in your imagination due to lack of self-worth is another .

I hope that whatever therapy you have will enable you to saise your self-worth, which is very low. You deserve a lot more than this luke-warm relationship, and I just wish you could a) see that and b) try to get out so you can find it.

I can't tell how much support he would actually give, because I'm not telling him. I did tell him yesterday that I'm being sent for the ECG and blood tests because of low weight, but I made out that it was because of stress and that I was going to make an effort to eat more. He was fine about it, but didn't seem to think it was a big deal. (Because I didn't let him know it was). But then when he was at work he sent me a text about it, so I think he's a bit worried. I think he will probably work it out for himself soon.

I only end relationships when I can't stand the person anymore, or when there's someone else I like better. At the moment neither of those things apply. I think he would be sad if we ended it. We do adore each other.

Brahms, how can you adore each other yet still keep the truth from him over your health as you fear his negative reaction to that? And how can he adore you if he takes fright - or your perceive he will- if you open up to him?
If you cannot be yourself and honest in a relationship then it is doomed.

There is a world of difference between hiding the truth because you fear the other person cannot cope with the stress of it, and hiding the truth because you feel they will be irritated by you being less than perfect.

I think you have to ask if you are with each other because you really want to be, or because you- or him- or staying out of fear afraid you will find nothing better.

Your reasons for staying with him- saying you haven't reached a point of not being able to stand him or meeting someone else- are really negative reasons. They also show you are avoiding responsibility for your feelings- you only act when there is an easy way out- either by hating the person enough to end it, or having the decision forced on you by meeting another person.

This relationship does not sound very positive at all. I don't want to be patronising, but I am twice your age and my DD is a bit younger than you- you have got years ahead of you to meet the person you really want- why waste time in this if it is not meeting your deepest needs?

"There is a world of difference between hiding the truth because you fear the other person cannot cope with the stress of it, and hiding the truth because you feel they will be irritated by you being less than perfect."

Yes, I think it is a mixture of both. I am not happy with being less than perfect in his eyes, although he probably isn't as bothered. But I don't think he will deal very well with the stress of it. In his specialty, he does a simple thing and it (usually) fixes the problem. Fixing things gives him satisfaction. I am beginning to realise that there isn't going to be a quick fix to this - good days and bad days, long term. He will assume responsibility for fixing me, but it won't work the way he wants it to.

I know the relationship is unlikely to last, just because the age gap is too big. But because I do have plenty of time, I'm not in a rush to end it, especially as I am stressed at the moment and will be more stressed in 6 months, and don't want to make it worse by missing him.

Brahms, you sound almost as though you are just living in the same house as someone (are you, or are you not even doing that?) and having sex with him, not having a proper relationship. I'd share more with my friends, let alone my partner. Your parents were clearly crap at showing you love and emotional support, so why set their level of interest in you as the gold standard, or inflict such emotional sterility on others when they might be willing to offer you more?

Maybe you don't feel emotionally capable at the moment of testing the reality of your relationship, but one day you are going to have to, unless you really want to live your life going from one short-term, ultimately unfulfilling relationship to another, just for the convenience of having nice holidays together, sex and showing off your intellects in academic debate. You seem from what you say to have sent very clear signals to your partner that your academic life is all important to you (you will share your woes with him on that score and would leave him if necessary to further your career) and that he is just a temporary convenience (you won't share your true feelings or insecurities with him and don't know anything about his). Is this really how you feel? Do you really want to be an old woman with a string of these "relationships" behind you?

No, we don't live together. I could live with him I suppose, but I prefer to keep my own place.

I don't know what people mean by a 'proper' relationship. They seem to think it means relying 100% on the other person and always expecting them to do the right thing for you. But the 'Relationship' topic is full of women who did that and are now screwed, so I don't think it's a dead-cert recipe for success tbh. I think people expect too much from their other halves, and then get upset when they don't get it.

Maybe soon I'll want a baby, and I'll do all the proper stuff then. I don't really feel the need to be soldered to someone at the moment. I'm happy with just talking, socialising, going out, having sex, having things in common. I genuinely feel no jealousy towards people who are married or whatever. He's already convinced that I won't want to be with him forever and that one day I'll go off and sprog. He might be right, and I wouldn't be able to convince him otherwise even if he wasn't.

Brahms- I don't think anyone is suggesting that you have a permanent relationship yet- you are still what- mid 20s?- which is young. Or that you make this relationship permanent. What I am concerned about is this:
you have an eating disorder at the bottom of which is low self-esteem. Now this might be a chicken and egg situation- this stuff is complex and it's where counselling will help unravel it all. BUT do you think you have chosen a man who is undemanding, has a low tolerance level of emotions, not willing or able to get close;-really in-your-head-close to you, as you feel unworthy of that?

The relationship you have seems to me to be a symptom of your ED.

It is the lack of quality of a relationship that matters to me. No one is suggesting you rely on anyone 100% or lose your identity and become dependent on them. That is the other end of the relationship spectrum. Somewhere in the middle is a relationship that allows you to be independent, yet loved and cherished , and able to show your warts and all to the loved one.

I missed the bit about your parents but if they were unloving nad unemotional then you seem to have found security of a kind with aman who offers you the same.

There IS something better out there- honestly- you just have to start believing that you deserve it and stop hanging onto something that only gives you a bit of what you need.

I agree that it might not be the best time to cut your losses with him, but at least start seeing that you deserve more.

DP is actually much more loving than my parents. He has also trained himself to be tough (shit childhood, ex-army, having to outwank the wankers at work) but he can relax with me and be a bit childish, and me the same with him. He does see my vulnerable side, but if I bombarded him with it all the time he would get bored (I am bored of it myself).

I never seem to attract the right sort of people, and I don't know why. Probably because I am not attracted by them. I was a bit Lolita-ish when younger, probably to make up for not getting enough attention from family. This, predictably, did not attract the right men.

Relationships are not about relying on each other 100%, or even about baring your entire soul. That is as stupid as not relying on your "partner" at all. You do not give up your identity, become emotionally weak and insecure, incapable of looking after yourself, or expect your partner to father/mother you when you have a proper relationship. However, you do expect emotional support and/or understanding and/or tolerance when you are going through a bad time. The rest of the time, you are less likely to suffer depression, anxiety and eating disorders if you are made to feel good about yourself by having someone who trusts you enough to share some of their feelings with you and whom you trust enough not to leave you if you turn out to be less than perfect.

No-one ever does the right thing by someone 100% of the time. People who think they are in "proper relationships" aren't necessarily in cloud cuckoo land, although they are more likely to have seen an example of a "proper relationship" from their parents - warts and all - and know that both of you have to work at it for it to last, not treat it with contempt and walk out on it the minute it loses its rosy glow. I'd go for that any time over the tiresomeness of going from one man to another until my looks ran out and I realised that I didn't have much else to attract men to me any more (they don't often go for ugly clever people) and hadn't managed to get anyone to take much interest in me beyond that while I had the chance.

I could work at it if I had to. And I have more than looks to interest men, thanks. Being intellectual is my career but it's not my life. I'm pretty sure it's not just my looks he's interested in. The six hour conversations over dinner probably wouldn't happen if that was the case. We never watch television or do other things people do to cover up the silence because we're too busy being together. We can spend 24/7 in each other's company for days and not get bored. Just because it's not likely to last doesn't mean it's a failure.

I know a lot of women who think they are happily married; unfortunately the actions of their husbands (which tend to be common knowledge) suggest otherwise.

Well, I disagree you can spend 24/7 in each other's company, because he'd know you have an eating disorder if you did. By all means be cynical about marriage and long term relationships, but don't expect to be immune from future bouts of serious anxiety and depression and problems with food - you are not protecting yourself from much by being so cynical. You are telling yourself that you have to be entirely self-reliant to survive at all in this world, but your mental health is proving that maybe this is not the best way to live your life and that you need to get support from somewhere, whether that be family (the best place), friends (second best) or counsellors (if you can't rely on the others).

He just thinks I'm a small person with a small appetite. I don't actually have particularly weird eating habits - I will eat all foods, but just a lot less of them than most people. My best eating days are when I spend time with him, because he'll say 'You have to finish that', and teases me which stops me fixating on it. It's like his attitude rubs off on me. He may well have realised, I don't know.

I know I am unusually self-reliant, but I am literally unable to be any other way. Still on the waiting list for counselling, and now my doctor knows which I think is good. I have nearly eaten three (small) meals a day since Wednesday, which is quite good. If I'm thinking about whether or not to eat, I can ask myself 'What would Dr x say?' and then I try to do what she would say (doesn't always work).

Well, good luck. Your dp sounds like a nice guy.

He is nice. I hope we'll always be friends at least. He is convinced I will get married really soon, bless him.

'He is nice. I hope we'll always be friends at least. He is convinced I will get married really soon, bless him.'

Can you really not see how unhealthy this relationship is? Presumably he means to someone other than himself. And I have serious reservations about his attitude towards mental health problems as well. Thank god he's not (presumably ) my GP