OK. Talk to me about possible eating disorder

[BrahmsThirdRacket]

I've posted on here before about weight etc (have namechanged since then), about my low BMI and whether it was 'normal' etc. I was very resentful of people talking about eating disorders, but am starting to try and look at that possibility more realistically now. Also, was on a thread last night that made me think.

My BMI is 17.6, making me about half a stone underweight. I'm 5 ft 4. My DP was the first to point it out, but more people are saying the same thing now. I went to the GP after I was advised to on here. He said I was about half a stone underweight, but he wasn't really worried about my health - my periods are fine and I have no health issues or anything weird going on with my body.

Sometimes I think I am just a slim person, and it's normal etc. I know I'm underweight, and have a strong desire to remain looking like this which shouldn't be right. But I don't go to crazy lengths to stay this way - I don't make myself puke, I don't starve myself, live on coffee etc. I will eat something if I really want it, even if it is the most calorific thing in the world. But I realise now that I have lost perspective on what a reasonable weight/amount of food to eat is. When I'm thinking about what to eat it panics me a bit, because I don't want to eat too much. I'm constantly working out what I've eaten that day and whether I can 'afford' to eat more.

Before Christmas I decided the best way to deal with it would be to do more exercise, to stimulate my appetite, and eat more. But what's actually happened is I'm not eating that much more, and am burning calories I probably can't afford. I don't think I have lost anymore weight though.

I was watching some diet programme on the telly and there was a girl on there who I thought was about my weight. But she was actually 2 st heavier. And she was the same height as me. This makes me think that I'm really not seeing what other people are seeing, which is a bit scary.

Basically, I know I'm not really going to damage myself. I can't imagine I will ever be one of those poor women who have heart failure or whatever. I do eat quite a lot really, frequently will eat sweets, some chocolate etc. So it can't really be a problems can it, if I do that? If you think I'm just overreacting, please say, it will make me feel better!

And if I may add to purplepeony's last post, psychotherapy should NOT focus on your eating habits at all. It will focus on your life and how to help you to be happy about yourself. And then, magically, an ed will go into fast retreat. You will automatically start to enjoy eating and enjoy your body. An ed is a coping mechanism, nothing more.

So what I am saying is there is no need to fear going for help, thinking you will be forced to eat more, think about diet sheets, weighed etc. It will not happen.

For me, every so often, my therapist will ask how it's going, but not in any detail, and it's my right not to answer. But other than that brief questioning, she concentrates on my daily worries and how I deal with them, so I can gain a better way of coping.

She has NEVER asked me what I weigh, how much weight I have lost, what I eat/don't eat. Nothing. SHe asks how I feel about my ed. Then moves swiftly onto issues in my daily life.

So there really is nothing to fear (hard to hear I know) and everything to gain.

Go for it!

Sorry - just to slightly disagree on therapy- it completely depends on the service - of 4 I know, most would offer CBT which would usually start with food diaries, weekly weigh ins etc. One would offer psychotherapy (psychologist, more exploratory therapy) easily, and another only if you really didn't get on with the other approaches. So you should check what does the service offer. And an 'eating disorder therapist' can be an occupational therapist with no formal mental health therapy training, or a psychologist or therapist with years and years of multiple therapy training.

So if you seek help, check what you're being offered, and if you don't like what you start with ask if there is any chance of other therapies available, as the evidence for CBT is only good for bulimia, not for other eating disorders, so they should offer alternatives. Good luck - it sounds as if you are starting to acknowledge possible issues, it may take a while longer before you feel strongly enough to seek help. But earlier help will mean fewer bad habits and less damage to your physical health.

pp - Re the fear of pregnancy thing, it's not just about your stomach getting bigger, everything gets bigger, and it restricts what you do, and if you do something damaging to yourself you could damage the baby without even meaning to and that's what freaks me out. And doing everything that is best for the baby, like breastfeeding it and being with it all the time just sounds like you are trapped.

It was me that posted in the relationships bit. I don't think my relationship is a bad one, particularly. He is a bit of a father figure to an extent, but not to the extent that it's not a sexual relationship. But I suppose one of the reasons I want to hold on to the relationship is because the fact that he doesn't want any more children takes a lot of pressure off me, whereas if I was with someone closer my own age, they might want a baby and if I didn't want one then there would be a whole load of stress, and I might have one to hold onto them and then resent it. But I have always gone for older men anyway, and he is my 'type'.

Psychotherapy sounds a bit scary - like they can get inside your head and change things without you even knowing they have or how they did it.

Also I am not sure about going back to the doctor's, as he really didn't seem to think there was a problem. I went before Christmas, and he weighed me and did lots of physical checks and asked me to come back after Christmas. So I went again, and he seemed reassured that there wasn't a problem. He said 'If you had dropped another half a stone I would be worried, but you haven't.' And he said I had a tiny frame, so even though I was underweight and he thought I should put on weight, he didn't seem to think it was that big a deal.

kay when I suggested psychotherapy, I was assuming that the OP would choose her own therapist from BACP, not be seen by anyone NHS.

www.bacp.co.uk

If you choose your own, you can see whoever you want and for however long you want. Many people in psychotherapy go into it for years, so it's not a quick fix.

Also, although I realise I probably am denying things, I'm genuinely stuck between two points of view. When I'm oscillating between one position and another, I'm going between my personal, deep-down point of view - i.e. I'm fine, and what other people say - that I'm not. If no one else ever said anything about it, I genuinely don't think it would have crossed my mind that there was a problem. I would just be pleased to be this weight. Additionally, DP made a bit of a fuss last year, because I went down to 7st 3 (due to a stressful episode, I think), but rarely says anything negative about it now, and thinks it's great that I exercise and tells me it's made my tummy much more toned.

Sorry, brahms, but the number of posts you've made would suggest that your deep-down point of view is that you're not fine.

Your GP was just focusing on your current weight, not considering all the issues that you have raised in your various posts - all of which indicate you do have an ED.

We're all telling you that because of what you have written! None of us know you, or can see what you look like. So on the basis of your evidence alone, there is a consistent view here that you really need to deal with this problem which is not just a physical 'should I put half a stone on?' question.

I do eat quite a lot really, frequently will eat sweets, some chocolate etc. So it can't really be a problems can it, if I do that? If you think I'm just overreacting, please say, it will make me feel better!

Brahms- this quote says it all- you want us to tell you that all is okay.

Please don't insult our intelligence and your own. Not one person has said you are okay.

When are you going to come out of denial?
What else can anyone say? Can't you see you are behaving irrationally now? If everyone here is saying the same thing- including people with ED-then at least listen.

it's your life, but if you don't want to listen to the truth, don't post.

Brahms- I hadn't read your previous reply to my suggestion of psychotherapy,your comments on being pregnant and your relationship.

Look, I am sorry to be so blunt and I will understand if you are upset...but you have one hell of a lot of issues to sort out.

Your thoughts on pregancy are really weird - a mixture of being frightened of the responsibility, changes to your body, loss of freedom- okay- all fine but you sound about 12 in that repsonse.

I am not going to reply to any more of your posts- it's a waste of time- you don't want to listen. Up to you.

I find it difficult to believe the GP would have been unconcerned if you had told him everything you have told us. I get the impression you told him absolutely nothing about your fear of putting on weight, quite how disordered your pattern of eating is, or that you are, in fact, deliberately staying that thin (albeit not trying to get thinner), rather than finding yourself that weight entirely by accident. No medical professional is going to be worried about you if you don't actually tell them the honest truth. And in any event, if you aren't actively starving yourself at the moment, you're not going to be top of their priorities, anyway, despite the fact you are doing yourself long term harm, so they'll just take whatever you tell them at face value, without probing into what your real problem might be.

I had a bulimic friend who got terribly disapointed by her psychologist, because she happily accepted the absolute rubbish said friend wrote in her food diaries each week - all complete lies from beginning to end, on which she wasn't remotely challenged and so didn't get remotely better...

I shall also leave this thread now, I can't think of much more to add, except this quote from you Brahms as follows:

"I can't remember who it was who said about thinking of food as medicine, but that is exactly how I feel about it. I only really enjoy eating about 5% of the time. It sounds weird, but I wish I could just eat when I wanted to, and not rely on food to stay alive! It would be great if they invented pills that gave you all the right things but didn't involve actual eating."

Doesn't that say it all?

Good luck to you. I urge you to wake up.

Brahms I'm afraid I have to agree with peony and twoisplenty, I'm going to leave this thread now - while wishing you the very best of luck.

Only you can make the changes necessary, and you can (and will) only do that when you get your head out of the sand.

You're deeply in denial. You want us to tell you you're fine when you're clearly not, and you don't want to hear that. If and when you ever get 'better' is entirely up to you - but first you have to admit to yourself that yes, you really DO have a problem.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

Brahms, your post of 11:52:41 today has revealed a huge problem -- you are terrified of losing control. Control over your body shape and size in pregnancy, control over your life and how you can live it when a baby needs to be fed and taken care of 24/7, control over your own mind if you allow anyone a peek inside it, one on one, through psychotherapy.

Your relationship (and I didn't see the other thread referred to) seems to be something you're not completely immersed in -- he's your type, you go for men like him, he's something of a father figure only with sex thrown in (I wonder if it's significant in some way that this is attractive to you). You want to hold onto the relationship because there's no pressure on you to be a woman, essentially. There's no passion there, Brahms. There's a strong indication that you found a certain comfort level with this man that was dictated by your fears and you are clinging to it.

I don't get any sense of you living your life as if you really have any deep down feeling that you are loving it and are present right bang in the middle of it, engaged in it with your heart and head. What I sense here is someone who is terrified, putting a huge amount of energy into resisting the flow, even actively seeking some sort of physical disappearance, afraid to be full-sized, emotionally as well as physically. You come across to me as a prisoner.

Brahms, I don't mean any of this as a criticism or as any kind of a 'you should' statement. I believe you could benefit 100% from getting to the bottom of your fears and your self-talk; as others have posted, the eating thing is the tip of the iceberg here, and the 90% that's in your head and heart is what's really important.

You are so brave posting again! I think I came down on you like a ton of bricks. Sorry about that. EDs are so devastating, and such a waste of such a lot of energy.

Psychotherapy is not such a bad thing. Nobody can get inside your head and change you. These people are not there to brainwash you. There are certain cults which seek to draw you in through 'counselling'. Therapy isn't quite the same!!

I was dragged off to the doctor by my mum when I was about 13, and my doc said the same as yours. I spent the following 15 years in eating hell. EDs do not often go away by themselves, and to wile away your life being obsessed by what passes your lips instead of living your life is incredibly sad.

For me, it wasn't about being thin so much as being there at all. I still don't like being weighed, and I'm no longer a stripling. My dh says I have a great bod, and I'm lucky to be alive. I am so so glad that I no longer suffer from the crippling food things.

Your gp will be able to advise on counselling and help. BEAT has lots of advice. The sooner you start getting help, the sooner you will see the end of what could be pretty nasty.

Sorry again that I have been so harsh. You are not alone!

Silentcatastrophe, the 'being there at all' is the crux of it, I believe.

pp, I am listening. If I thought everyone was talking bollocks, I wouldn't even bother replying.

I am fully aware my feelings on pregnancy are weird. Looking at MN was supposed to help with that, but it hasn't. It's a moot point anyway, since there's no one who wants to have a baby with me. Maybe I'm just not supposed to have them. Or maybe I'll feel differently in 5 years. I did a search on the BACP website for psychotherapists in my area, but I can't really afford £40 a week for an infinite number of weeks. I think there is a counselling thing at work, but it might just be for students, I'll look.

To everyone else who is disappointed by my responses - sorry. I have read and considered every word you've written, but I think it's unrealistic to expect me to totally change my mind and 'see the light' within 3 days or whatever.

You're right, it takes time. But you're brave enough to consider the possibility anyway. Sometimes it helps when you're setting out on a healing journey to consider yourself already healing even before you take the first step/ go to the first appointment.

I wouldn't say 'weird' about your feelings. There's nothing weird or unheard-of here.

I worry about you being inclined to take the long view though. No, change doesn't occur in less than a week, but plenty of positive change can happen in two weeks. It's not a famine or a feast (no change possible in three days vs. maybe I'll feel differently in five years). The way to approach this is day by day, not resisting the chance to change that each individual day brings, and not hoping that somehow things will be different just with the passage of time.

Reading your threads, Brahms, is so sad! It reminds me so much of what I used to be like. I didn't think anyone would love me enough for me to have children. I hated having periods, as they were just a sign of my redundant sexual organs. It's a dreadful way to feel.

Your gp will know of any help available on the NHS. My eating was more to do with untreated depression than food, so when the depression was treated, the ed disappeared.

£40 is a lot to spend. There are other ways, and a great many counsellors have a sliding scale of charges.

You are clearly concerned about your health. Like a cancerous lump it probably won't go away on its own, and it may well get a lot worse.

It's easy to wonder if you are actually worth it, and to compare yourself with other people. Whatever has happened to you that may have triggered this is no less than what happens to anyone else.

I find it difficult to shake off the idea that either you're anorexic, which means you starve yourself and barely eat anything at all, or you're bulimic in which case you puke up everything you eat. I fit neither category. There are 'normal' days where my diet is fine, i.e. identical to the other people I'm with. But if I'm left to my own devices (like today) it's different.

I went shopping today because I need new jeans, and I couldn't find any to fit at all (I didn't look in that many shops, I am quite lazy). However, the age 13-14 in the kids' range fitted fine... Also when I was trying things on, I could see myself from different angles in the 2-mirror cubicle and I was genuinely surprised at how small I was. It was nice to be able to get a pair of jeans for £16, but it did freak me.

silentcat, it's not that I don't believe anyone will love me enough to have children with me (in every past relationship, the man is always the one who says 'I love you' about eight times a day, and I rarely say it back. And I always chuck them in the end - have never been dumped. So it's not them, it's me iyswim) , it's just fearing the loss of control that goes along with having them, loss of control over my body, being dependent on OH etc. But I might want them enough in a few years to not mind.

I am going to investigate psychotherapy further.

Best wishes Brahms. You are a brave soul.

Your history of chucking men who say they love you might mean you're waiting for them to change their minds and rejecting them before they reject you? Maybe you feel it couldn't possibly be true that they love you?

You sound like a friend of mine who had a very unhappy childhood because she felt unloved by her parents (albeit that physically she was taken care of). She actually had a point, there... As a form of self-protection, she has become a very self-centred adult, constantly looking for people to prove they love and admire her and will listen endlessly to her however badly she treats them, in order to help her feel better about herself. I seriously doubt this actually works, as repeating the emotionally retarded behaviour of her parents, by working to get people to be needy of her love and approval and then rejecting them for being too needy, is not likely to make her remotely happy. She's too scared to become a mother, too. Unlike people from happy backgrounds, she associates children and childhood with resentment, misery and a loss of control, despite the fact that, as you have said about yourself, she is actually great fun with other peoples' children.

Your thinking is totally unhealthy and self-obsessed. Get thee to a counsellor.

ps I feel very sad for my friend, because I know she could make the most loving, kindly mother (you could see that side of her personality quite strongly in her when she was little), but she just doesn't see it in herself.

Good on you, Brahms.

You are right in that there is a huge grey area between 'normal' and pathological eating patterns. You don't actually have to be at death's door to have issues with food. But it is important to look at stopping this behavior now rather than waiting until your poor body and brain chemistry is totally fucked.

Fwiw, I found psychotherapy saved my life. I was lucky enough to be involved in a group psychotherapy project and it was a godsend. I have a very healthy attitude to food now which is frankly miraculous given the state I was in. It was a long haul and hellish at times, but NOTHING compares to the hell that is a full-on ed.

The ksy is finding a therapist who you can work with, which can take a little time. Will your dp be happy to help you fight your corner when you are struggling - sounds like he is. And that will be a big help.

On the positive side, the fact that you are able to have a healthy relationship is great. Many people with eds cannot do this, so you are off to a good start.

Good luck to you.

Thanks all. My attitude to love is a bit Prince Charles-ish - 'Whatever love means'. I don't really know.

Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to tell DP if I do have psychotherapy, as I feel it will put him off me. He is quite good about making sure I eat, and I do eat better when I'm with him (mostly because he will take me out for dinner) but I don't think he thinks it's down to any kind of disorder, just laziness, disorganisation and lack of cooking skills.

I don't feel that I had a very happy childhood. Nothing very unusual, just parental divorce/remarriage, boarding school (disliked), still don't have a very good relationship with my mother, I speak to her about once every 3 months. She's not particularly interested.

Well I lied, Brahms, I'm back! I think we've all been quite hard on you but only in the 'tough love' sense. We all wish you well and want you to get the help you need.

I've carried on following the thread and am really pleased to see that you're going to investigate getting help. It really does seem that your EDs are just one of the ways in which your 'issues' (God I hate that word) whatever they are, connected with your childhood and need for control, manifest themselves. I really think that therapy of some kind can and will do you the world of good.

Remember, with therapy you still stay in control, but it just means you get an expert to help you change in the ways you want to. It's all about getting healthier and happier. Asking for help is the most intelligent, sensible thing anyone can do when they're not able to solve a problem themselves. It's not failure - it's what winners do.

I wish you the very best of luck and hope you can quickly find a therapist who you connect with, open up to, and who can help you untangle all the stuff that's holding you back from being completely healthy and happy.

Sad you feel getting psychotherapy would entail being rejected by your P on some level. Do you think you could risk telling him? Would he be happy to think you are unhappy and fearing getting help and his support, expecting his disapproval? I think part of your therapy will involve learning to open up and feel, to take risks with people you are close to, learning to risk being yourself. There's a lot of fear in your life.