Can I stop forever?

[grahamgreenefanatic]

I need to stop drinking forever. I've always drunk to get drunk since I was 18, I'm now 45. Is it better to say 'never again', or 'small achievable steps at a time' Is there anyone out there who can help or who feels they need it?

3 weeks with only two night when I drank a few glasses at a party and then some with my dinner on Saturday.

I don't find it hard to not bother but saturday night reminded me that what I really like to do is drink lots It took a lot of the pleasure away knowing that once my glass was finished I wasn't going to have no more. I think I can control the amount with some will power but I'm not sure that I will enjoy drinking when I have to keep it within limits. So maybe there isn't any point in going back.

Admitting to how much you were honestly drinking is a toughy,was reading a article in the Times earlier about children and alcoholic mothers hmm sobering thoughts.

At my worse and being 100% honest I was drinking in excessive of 100 units a week.Alot.I balanced my screwed up drinking by telling myself it was ok as I never touched alcohol before 8pm and I never had the urge to drink in the day.Warped alcoholic thinking.

Good Lord, Teasle, of course I understand about the public forum and I don't need to know at all. It is being a little voyeuristic perhaps, so forgive me.
It's intersting though, isn't it, about how we want to know how much someone else drinks so that we may measure ourselves against them and possibly ameliorate our consiences because 'I don't drink as much as so and so, so therefore I don't have a problem'.
Its a little bit like getting secret pleasure that someone else is fatter than you, though a trifle more shallow perhaps?..

MissNash,
Nibbles on the sideboard..
olives, cheese and Werther's Originals!( they're sweet and keep my mouth from eating too much cheese)

Hi MIFLAW (sorry)!

Just checking in, I've not had anything, even though I had a crap day at work, I went to meet a friend after for a drink and something to eat and drunk only coffee.

Well done Hybrid, I expect you really felt as if you deserved a drink after your day. It's hard how one feels so hard done by when you feel you deserve a drink and you can't have one (even when you feel you don't deserve it)
Managed to slink away from Happy Feet to post this (God, it's boring..)
Strongly felt the urge tonight, but bitter lemon and apple and raspberry stayed in my glass but ate too much instead.

Congratulations, Ormrenewed, it's hard. I drank only to get drunk and saw little pleasure in just 1 glass, I know how it feels.

Welcome Coolma, good to read your post.

Keep it going everyone

Good support thread this and always needed - however long it's been since the last drink, it's just a cork away and sooooo hard at times

GGF - Happy Feet may be boring but better to slink away to post here than to have a quick glass of Shiraz/ Chardonnay.

Enjoy the olives and cheese - mmm. Have had to eat choc santa's head as well as cashews. Have discoverd it is Holby City double bill - heaven ...

Well done Hybrid - going for drink after work especially tricky partic if your mate is drinking.

I do feel a bit lightweight compared to all you people contemplating the pros and cons of drinking but am interested to hear all views. However I have realised after many months of considering it that once some alcohol slips down my throat then all resolve and logical thought dissolves and then its the slippery slope on the magical mystery tour to the end of the evening which on a good day could be snoring in my bed but on a bad day a hideous argument about something stupid with whoever happens to be nearest.

MissNash et al

I heard once that GPs are essentially trained to double whatever you tell them with regards to drinking and smoking (if you strike them as a problem drinker, that is.) I once told a GP the truth - he obviously doubled it and looked at me as if nothing he had learnt in medical school could explain why I was upright.

So I thought. A way down the line of sobriety, I tried to be more honest still and remember how much I was drinking. Turns out my massive "honest" answer was nonetheless a conservative estimate. I had been scrupulously honest about what I regularly drank - but I had "forgotten" the extras, the "just one" at lunch time, the weeks (ie every week) when Friday or Saturday needed celebrating in one way or another, the times I finished the second bottle a little earlier than planned and started on the third (and the times I woke at 4 in the morning and had another glass out of it, kidding myself that this wasn't morning drinking but very late night drinking becaue I was going back to bed ...)

All this to say that, if you start counting units, there's a limit to how honest you can be when you're still in the thick of it.

Have just been directed by another site to the NHS website about drinking. For a laugh, i decided to put myself in my old shoes and read through the "10 steps to cutting down".

It sounds like pure torture! "Try drinking more slowly" - what's the point of that? "Have alcohol free days" - is this some kind of sick joke? "Chatting will help you drink more slowly" - all I ver used to do was stand in the pub drinking pint after pint and chat to ANYONE about ANYTHING, ALL night.

It may not be the same for everyone, but this for me has reinforced the sheer relief of not drinking at all and not having to do something as counter-intuitive and unappealing as "control" my drinking. I'd sooner live my life trying to "control" chronic diaorrhea.

I think if you actually are an alcoholic (as DH is) the suggestions of how to control drink are, in the main, pretty laughable.

DH certainly didn't drink to be sociable - although he did drink in social settings. He drank to get drunk, to deal with crippling anxiety which was, paradoxically caused by the drinking in the first place....

MIFLAW, can I also ask, one of DH's big ongoing concerns is that our child will be an alcoholic as well, or have other addictions. He certainly feels that some of his anxiety comes from how his father especially really pushed him, was never pleased with anything (eg, he would come second in a test, why couldn't he have come first), never praised etc.

So, do you do anything in particular to "look out" for signs that your (daughter?) is exhibiting anything that you would consider a warning sign, or do you not worry about it? Do you take any steps to talk about not drinking etc (sorry, I don't know how old she is).

Basically, do you do anything to look out for/treat her differently than you otherwise would have done?

For the record, DH's father, mother and brother have never had any problems with alcohol.

You don't have to answer, but he has mentioned it a few times and all I have been able to say is that we will cross that brige when we come to it and be as open as possible.

My duaghter's only 2 - but, typical alcoholic that I am, yes, I have already thought (i.e. worried) about this.

I feel in a bit of a lose-lose situation, to be honest - obviously it would be preferable for her to take after her mother (who is in no way alcoholic) but I selfishly worry I won't understand her as I'd like to if she's a civilian!

Also, a big part of me thinks that either I was born an alcoholic or couldn't help becoming one - so it follows that, if my daughter takes after me, there's very little I can do about it.

My plans, such as they are, are:

hope really hard that, if she is an addict, she picks something legal and with a long fuse (alcohol or gambling, basically) - addictions's bad enough without factoring in crime and the various powders and potions the cut heroin with

continue not to drink myself so that, if she is willing to take it, there is an example for her that one can be happy and normal(ish) without drinking

answer her questions as honestly as I can, without giving her nightmares

not encourage her to drink in a "oh, you must get pissed at least once or you haven't lived" way but not ban it either

if she does turn out to have a problem, be available for her and, when the time is right, try to 12th step her

It's a bugger, eh? I try to keep that in the day, too - or, as you put it, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

I agree with you that some of the NHS tips for not drinking are not helpful as they don't take account of the fact that once you have drunk a bit you are not so able to control what you are doing.

However some of them do work for some people - for example DH realised that he was actually drinking over safe limits and so cut down to a regime of only drinking certain amounts on certain nights of the week and has stuck to it for years.

Additionally there is a lot of info on Down Your Drink about what is safe, how to actually calculate numbers of units etc which is useful. It made me realise that I had been underestimating the numbers of units I was drinking due to the large galss sizes now used in pubs and restaurants.

I've lurked quite a bit on cutting down drinking threads, usually after having a hangover and feeling guilty, but have always been put off posting as they often end up just with people who have got very serious drinking problems rather than people like me who just no longer feel comfortable with some of the side effects on the occasions when I have drunk too much.

So I think its quite important that a range of views are on here and if some people find the NHS advice helpful than thats good.

"So I think its quite important that a range of views are on here and if some people find the NHS advice helpful than thats good." You're right, it's fantastic. But to me it is like Martian.

I also didn't see anywhere on the page of "how to cut down" ANY ADVICE AT ALL on "what to do if you can't cut down." Suppose someone really is an alcoholic, doesn't want to face it and goes to this page? Doing what the NHS suggests he or she is in for a lifetime of misery and failure.

A common estimate (don't ask me where it's from, I don't know) is that 1 in 7 people have a serious (ie close enough for jazz to being an alkie) drink problem.

Another estimate is that 3% of the adult population are in AA.

What use is this NHS site to the remaining 11% of the UK adult population? I do understand that the 6 out of 7 are the majority but still, 11% is a lot of miserable, desperate people and you'd think the NHS might at least give them a nod.

Not sure what you were looking at MIFLAW. Did you see this NHS website?

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Alcohol-misuse/Pages/Treatment.aspx

It does quite clearly say that:

"Abstinence may also be recommended if you have previously tried to achieve moderation and failed".

I imagine a lot of people will try to cut down before they try to give up altogether. Presumably that is waht this NHS page is trying to do - give people choices and options.

Okay - so how does one go about abstaining? What help is available? How do I get in touch with such agencies? Where are the links to their websites? Any books you cna recommend? Titles? Publishers?

Sorry, I know we're going off message a bit here but I think this is genuinely disappointing coming from the National Health Service.

I found that site useful MissNash thanks.

The nhs link is pretty good.

This book is recommended highly also

I have loads of books! 'Under the influence' is highly recommended, but a bit scientific I found. I tend to get deeply involved in biog and autobiogs about drinkers - 'Drinking a love story' by caroline knapp; 'Dry' by augusten burroughs, absolutley hilarious but very serious too, 'What did I do last night' by Tom sykes...blimey, there's more, I can't remember them all...am I obsessed

Coolma,do you reccommend 'Dry'? as I loved his 'Running with scissors'.

I have 'Headful of Blue' by Nick Johnstone.It's frank diary of a alcoholic and also 'Shoot the Damn Dog' by Sally Brampton which is about her battle with depression and alcoholism.

Both dark but inspiring.

Ozzygirly and MIFLAW

You might find this link helpful and reasurring insofar as genetic links to addiction.
www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBS_en&q=Oliver+Jame s+under+the+microscope+site:guardian.co.uk&start=10&sa=N

Sorry, I'll try that again

s+under+the+microscope+site:guardian.co.uk&start=10&sa=N

And again

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jan/23/oliver-james-genes-environment-adhd

I have both of those too! Dry is excellent - have also read 'running with scissors.' he's a very interesting bloke. James Frey is good too, although his books, the names* of which completely escapes me now, was alledgedly more fiction than fact. Strange style but excellently written.

*'My friend Leonard' is the second one. Bugger am going to have to go upstairs and find the first one now.

A Million Little Pieces Coolma ,I've read it and really enjoyed it,not read 'My friend Leonard' but have read his 3rd book 'Bright Shiny Morning'.It's a good read.