Don't take Pandemrix, only Celvapan....if you can get it!

[mommymeggie]

First off, I'm not a medical advisor but I do A LOT of research b/f I make any big, rash decisions on anything! I am 7 months pregnant and have a 18 month old at home. That being said, I have been very skeptical on the whole swine flu vaccine and how it is important to pregnant women. I find it very disturbing how our medical advisors can issue these vaccines without giving us the facts behind them. What I mean is, everytime I ask questions, they seem to not know the answers but then turn around to ensure me that this shot is SAFE. Well, thats just not good enough for me!! So I listen to every brodcast, google everything possible, read every magazine and newspaper article until I'm blue in the face.....and still, nothing explains WHY this shot is so safe for pregnant women? So I've come across links in the US stating that doctors are only giving preservative free, pre-syringed shots to pregnant women as they say is the safest bet to the fetus's health. Preservative free means mercury free from the preservative Thimerosal. Thimerosal has 25mg of mercury. Basically, if you are advised to not eat fish and other things with high mercury, why would you inject yourself with a mercury perservative? Also Thimerosal has become illegal in the state of California, and soon to be other states following suit, b/c it leads to autism in children. Vaccines with mercury have been considered to contribute not only to autism but also learning disabilities, Alzheimer?s disease, and other neurological conditions, yet many clinics still use thimerosal because of the gradual phasing out of mercury products. (www.thimerosal-autism-symptoms.com/) Now, the other problem is the adjuvant Squalene. Squalene is an oily substance produced by your liver ? introducing squalene into the body via a ?vaccine? (which contains foreign substances to activate the immune system) can lead the body to consider ALL squalene bad. This can and does result in auto-immune diseases such as lupus, arthritis, and MS. Also Squalene (MF 59) was added to the anthrax vaccine. This vaccine caused tens of thousands of U.S. Iraq Desert Storm soldiers to suffer permanent neurological damage called ?Gulf War Illness.? Squalene (MF 59) enzyme is not approved for human consumption but waived for use in the H1N1 vaccine. (www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ingredients/results.asp?sc=27) The UK government bought two h1n1 vaccines.....the first one is the American company GlaxoSmithKline, who produce Pandemrix....the other is also American, Baxter, who produce Celvapan, a preservative free shot that doesn't contain any of the above. But funny enough, the government spent loads on Pandemrix b/c it was already made and happens to be cheaper to the Celvapan. And you can only receive the Celvapan if you have an egg allergy or suffer from certain medical problems that basically doesn't apply to pregnant women!

So bottom line is, I hope this gave you all a little insight on what they are trying to push into our bodies. I am not completely against the vaccines but I want to be able to have the choice of which one I want to protect me. Shame on the government for not giving us the true details of this vaccine and trying to use scare tactics to push us to have the shot. I am like every one of you out there who is nervous about having the shot but nervous about not getting one. I don't want to not be protected if it gets out of hand come flu season soon. But I think if they are saying pregnant women are priority, TOP Priority, then they should give the safest shot for us and our unborn child's wellbeing. And because of this lack of caring, I prob won't be receiving the h1n1 shot come this winter b/c I will NOT take Pandemrix!! Celvapan or nothing.

Beachcomber and others, it is so reassuring to read so many well researched and well thought out posts. It's so sad that so many mothers think it's scaremongering to write about this.

Without it, we have but one source of information, with little dissent. Thank God for the mothers. And those who've had so much on their plate, with vaccine damaged children, and still manage to research and debate about it, to challenge the authorities and publicise the issues thus helping many, many others well, I take my hat off to you.

ipsy one swallow does not a summer make

...and unfortunately it looks like a rather dead swallow, judging by the quality of that journal and the paper itself.

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."

@IpsyDaisy: Agreed. However my opinion was based on investigating the scientific quality of the original paper.

Maybe you could give us a scientific explanation as to why they no longer use Thermisol in vaccines for children including mmr, there must be some reason?

Sorry, posted on the wrong thread

IPSY can cause swelling at injection site?

@IpsyDaisy: the United States has had thiomersal removed from their childhood vaccines but the UK hasn't. There is no scientific explanation for the US decision; it was based on a theoretical risk assessment for which there is no compelling evidence.

Re MMR: perhaps you could do a bit of extra research yourself and tell us the very important scientific reason why it has no thiomersal in it?

It was actually my health visitor who told me that it had! Of course could have been a con to get me to take it? So I take it you are telling us vaccines are full of wonderful ingredients that do no harm whatsoever and you can personally guarantee 100% no reaction at all. It's easy for someone who has no first hand experience of how a vaccine can damage a previously healthy child to be so black and white. I wonder how you would react if it happened to your child or to someone close to you. Would you continue to keep injecting them in the hope that the next time they would cope?

Ipsy there's no need to make such drastic assumptions about another MN member's background or motives, especially when I was attempting to answer your question.

Your health visitor was correct that MMR has no thiomersal in it. I was asking if YOU know why that is? Otherwise you are in danger of living up to your own quotation above.

ipsy have you read todays news?

Vaccination is an organised criminal enterprise disguised as disease prevention. AVOID ALL SHOTS!!!

Vaccines have never prevented anything apart from health, sanity and common sense!

Visit the 'Vaccination Information Network' (VINE)on Facebook (9600 fans) and get educated!

Celvapan does not contain squalene or thimerosal, but it is not safe either ... it contains a cancer causing nano chip.

wow, old thread!

Oops meant to write it possibly contains a cancer causing nano chip.

I can't find anything concrete as to whether. Celvapan does have a nano chip or not. Can anyone else? I would like to know before I make an informed decision about whether to give it to DS.

er, where did you get the idea that Celvepan contains a nano chip?

There were unconfirmed reports that it would have. However I have not been able to find any information as to whether it does or doesn't for definite.

Unconfirmed reports meaning conspiracy theories on random websistes? Seriously, where on earth would anyone find evidence of that kind of thing? That are vaccine safety issues that are real, and then there are things that are just plain bonkers.

Thankfully my husband is Finnish and was able to report to me that a connection has been made between Pandemrix and the disorder Narcolespy as identified by both Finnish and Swedish research concluded in February 2011. It was reported a couple of days ago in the finnish newspapers and I noticed today that it has been updated on wikipedia. Check it out. Im glad I decided not to be a guinea pig.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Side_effects

Knowledge is power!

I do find it interesting when people become very anti-vaccination with rantings of 'scientific' studies. I think its great that people care so deeply about others that they show such emotions but lets look at the facts, and I can only talk from a UK slant. This year in my job ( and yes I am one of 'those' terrible health professionals)

i have not dealt with one issue in regards to receiving flu vaccine in pregnancy or otherwise. I have however dealt with case after case of deaths in both children and adults. Believe me it's very depressing and utterly shattering. I work on a regional level and only today dealt with a baby that died last week who was in an 'at risk' group. My post is not to scaremonger but to present it in very clear facts.

Vaccination related issues=0 in region.
H1N1 deaths=approx 75 in region.
Figures speak for themselves.

I do not mean to be dismissive to those who have opposing values and concerns but I can only judge it by my day to day slog of working with a very hard set of facts.

beesting - that's a bit misleading. Just because you haven't dealt with any immediate vaccine reactions does not mean that someone else hasn't. Also, if this Finland study is accurate then you wouldn't necessarily see the issue with the vaccine right away.

Actually it's not misleading in the capacity that I work. i deal with strategic as well as operational management working closely with the JCVI and SHAs. I'm the person that adverse incidents are reported to. So no, not at all misleading, in fact probably have the best overview of most health professionals.
Vaccines were also given last year, seasonal flu has been given for years, nothing new there.
The West is a victim of it's own success, vaccines stop illness, middle class society forgets how horrible ilness really is because they don't see it anymore, so therefore perceive vaccine as the bigger threat, stop vaccinating, illness rears very ugly head again, people start vaccinating again. It's the age old cycle. Boring but true.

Sorry beesting, but I know people who have had reactions to the pandemrix vaccine and the flu vaccine and have reported them so maybe they have gone to a different region or whatever but they do exist.

"vaccines stop illness, middle class society forgets how horrible ilness really is because they don't see it anymore, so therefore perceive vaccine as the bigger threat, stop vaccinating, illness rears very ugly head again, people start vaccinating again."

You're talking about flu here! Very few people vaccinate against flu and we see it EVERY YEAR. Perhaps we're less afraid of it because we have antibiotics to treat secondary infections such as pneumonia which were much more dangerous when we had no way of treating them.