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Don't take Pandemrix, only Celvapan....if you can get it!

162 replies

mommymeggie · 09/11/2009 15:48

First off, I'm not a medical advisor but I do A LOT of research b/f I make any big, rash decisions on anything! I am 7 months pregnant and have a 18 month old at home. That being said, I have been very skeptical on the whole swine flu vaccine and how it is important to pregnant women. I find it very disturbing how our medical advisors can issue these vaccines without giving us the facts behind them. What I mean is, everytime I ask questions, they seem to not know the answers but then turn around to ensure me that this shot is SAFE. Well, thats just not good enough for me!! So I listen to every brodcast, google everything possible, read every magazine and newspaper article until I'm blue in the face.....and still, nothing explains WHY this shot is so safe for pregnant women? So I've come across links in the US stating that doctors are only giving preservative free, pre-syringed shots to pregnant women as they say is the safest bet to the fetus's health. Preservative free means mercury free from the preservative Thimerosal. Thimerosal has 25mg of mercury. Basically, if you are advised to not eat fish and other things with high mercury, why would you inject yourself with a mercury perservative? Also Thimerosal has become illegal in the state of California, and soon to be other states following suit, b/c it leads to autism in children. Vaccines with mercury have been considered to contribute not only to autism but also learning disabilities, Alzheimer?s disease, and other neurological conditions, yet many clinics still use thimerosal because of the gradual phasing out of mercury products. (www.thimerosal-autism-symptoms.com/) Now, the other problem is the adjuvant Squalene. Squalene is an oily substance produced by your liver ? introducing squalene into the body via a ?vaccine? (which contains foreign substances to activate the immune system) can lead the body to consider ALL squalene bad. This can and does result in auto-immune diseases such as lupus, arthritis, and MS. Also Squalene (MF 59) was added to the anthrax vaccine. This vaccine caused tens of thousands of U.S. Iraq Desert Storm soldiers to suffer permanent neurological damage called ?Gulf War Illness.? Squalene (MF 59) enzyme is not approved for human consumption but waived for use in the H1N1 vaccine. (www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ingredients/results.asp?sc=27) The UK government bought two h1n1 vaccines.....the first one is the American company GlaxoSmithKline, who produce Pandemrix....the other is also American, Baxter, who produce Celvapan, a preservative free shot that doesn't contain any of the above. But funny enough, the government spent loads on Pandemrix b/c it was already made and happens to be cheaper to the Celvapan. And you can only receive the Celvapan if you have an egg allergy or suffer from certain medical problems that basically doesn't apply to pregnant women!

So bottom line is, I hope this gave you all a little insight on what they are trying to push into our bodies. I am not completely against the vaccines but I want to be able to have the choice of which one I want to protect me. Shame on the government for not giving us the true details of this vaccine and trying to use scare tactics to push us to have the shot. I am like every one of you out there who is nervous about having the shot but nervous about not getting one. I don't want to not be protected if it gets out of hand come flu season soon. But I think if they are saying pregnant women are priority, TOP Priority, then they should give the safest shot for us and our unborn child's wellbeing. And because of this lack of caring, I prob won't be receiving the h1n1 shot come this winter b/c I will NOT take Pandemrix!! Celvapan or nothing.

OP posts:
flockwallpaper · 22/11/2009 11:23

I'm just telling you what the system is so you can make an informed choice. What you choose is up to you tina.

tinalouiseuk · 22/11/2009 11:23

That goes without saying Flockwallpaper

flockwallpaper · 22/11/2009 11:37

A negative effect of the vaccine on pregnant women or their unborn babies may come to light, but there is risk associated with not being vaccinated and contracting the virus itself, as someone else pointed out.

Unfortunately there isn't a no risk option. If you vaccinate, there is a risk of vaccine related effects but at least you have minimised the risk of catching the virus and potentially passing it on to your nearest and dearest. If you don't vaccinate, you aren't exposing yourself to possible vaccine side effects, but you could find yourself having to deal with the consequences of the infection in yourself or your loved ones.

I do feel for anyone that is pregnant at the moment and struggling to decide what to do, I really do.

tinalouiseuk · 22/11/2009 11:40

You are so right about the struggle Flockwallpaper - for those who are currently pregnant it must be such an incredible burden at what should be such a thrilling time.

I do hope we all find the answers we need to make the choices that are right.

bristolboat · 25/11/2009 14:42

You are not a medical advisor and it seems the "A LOT" of research you do is seriously flawed.
Pandermix contains 5 micrograms of thiomersal (see www.emea.europa.eu/humandocs/PDFs/EPAR/pandemrix/D-H1N1%20single%20PDFs/SPC/emea-spc-h832pu17 en.pdf). This is 5,000 times less than you claim (25 milligrams).
1 microgram of thiomersal has the equivalence of 0.5 micrograms of mercury to the human body.

Pandermix is the equivalent of 2 x 250g (approx 8oz) portions of scallop (classified as low mercury content by the FDA). Your comments suggest a single dose of Pandermix is equivalent to 10,000 portions of scallop. This is somewhat exaggerated to say the least.
Pandermix's main advantage over Celvapan is it confers significantly faster immunity. Whilst Celvapan does not contain thiomersal, it has a slight delay in immunity. The consequences of contracting swine flu while carrying a baby are serious and I think you do mothers to be a dis-service by misinforming them. The trade off for more immediate immunity is a SLIGHT exposure to mercury, this is the question mothers should ask themselves.
People such as yourself, touting misinformation, create concern and are potentially harmful to individuals who cannot access the relevant information. Whilst I am sure your intentions are entirely good, please stick to what you know, and remember this isn't science advice.

tinalouiseuk · 25/11/2009 14:48

Bristolboat:
Are you in the medical field?

It is so hard to know what is right in this less than clear picture.

We do all have the right intentions and I feel comfortable reading all information here on these boards - at no point have I felt 'medically advised' or encouraged to take any position. What do you feel is 'potentially harmful' about the discussions and information sharing here?

bristolboat · 25/11/2009 15:12

Yes I am medical and my pregnant wife has just had the Pandermix vaccination which is why I have researched this question at length. The risks associated with contracting swine flu are very serious. The risks of immunisation are theoretical at most. If the concern is mercury levels then you need to compare this to a known. If you have a particularly 'fishy week' you will have been exposed to more mercury than that contained in Pandermix. Every aspect of life is about risk management and there are very rarely clear answers. In this case, the only clear thing is that you should try your very best to avoid contracting swine flu (and even if you do get it, this may not be at all bad). Therefore vaccination is a good idea. And the sooner the better. I find it upsetting when people post opinions on the internet and portray them as fact, which is a danger with this sort of forum. This is the first time I have ever involved myself with chatrooms - day off work and lots of jobs I haven't done! Mommeggie is probably a lovely person but she is only presenting opinions and referencing heresay and lobbyist websites. This is very dangerous in the arena of healthcare and can lead to great suffering. The MMR episode in the UK is an example of this. There are now hundreds/thousands of severely ill children because of media sensationalisation. This is extremely sad when you see the children in the flesh, as opposed to the figures in the paper. My advice would be to write your concerns on a piece of paper and discuss them with a doctor who has the time to explain fully their answers. Book a double appointment with your GP. Other healthcare professionals are fantastic but will not have the scientific understanding/access to interpret the evidence for you. Hope that's ok. Good luck, I'm sure it'll be fine.

tinalouiseuk · 25/11/2009 15:45

May I therefore ask a medical question that concerns me then Bristolboat (and thanks so much for your helpful response )...

Would mercury behave differently when injected into the bloodstream as opposed to ingesting it in food? Does the amount considered safe differ depending on how you get the mercury?

Sincere thanks for any clarity.

fanjolina · 26/11/2009 10:11

It is my understanding that there are no guidelines on safe levels of injected mercury.

Bristolboat - please correct my understanding if I am wrong.

Beachcomber · 29/11/2009 09:45

And it is my understanding that that ethyl mercury as contained in vaccines is not the same as methyl mercury as contained in fish. They do not behave the same in the body and research suggests that ethyl mercury is much more toxic. The body does not detoxify them in the same way.

The above study "demonstrates clearly and unequivocally that ethyl mercury, the kind of mercury found in vaccines, not only ends up in the brain, but leaves double the amount of inorganic mercury as methyl mercury, the kind of mercury found in fish."

Using safety standards for injested methyl mercury to make statements about what is safe for injected ethyl mercury is so damned unscientific and ridiculous that it would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.

That this sort of argument is being made by the folks in charge is utterly astounding and frankly quite terrifying.

Beachcomber · 29/11/2009 09:52

Bristolboat have just noticed that you have accused others of 'touting misinformation'.

Sorry but your comparison of a vaccine to a portion of scallops is not only misinformation but is totally unscientific and very very silly.

We are not talking about the same molecule, we are not talking about the same route of entry and we have ignored any synergistic effects with other vaccine ingredients. In other words we seem to be ignoring basic chemistry with this sort of nonsense.

rationalmum2b · 29/11/2009 19:36

Is anyone able to explain the science behind why pandemrix is safe for the unborn child. I am happy to read links to external reference sources.

Beachcomber · 30/11/2009 08:08

Hi rationalmum. I saw your thread on this but didn't know what to reply to it as I don't think there are studies on Pandermix itself.

As vaccines aren't tested on pregnant women I'm guessing the safety info is based on how previous flu vaccines have been tolerated in the wider population, thus including pregnant women and their babies.

Personally I don't find this practice very reassuring as it is well known that post marketing vaccine reactions are hugely under reported. Perhaps there is an active follow up system for pregnant women though.

premy2u · 05/12/2009 15:50

For those of you who are part of the 'no evidence' group, you might want to read the following pdf document:
www.ddponline.org/epidemics.pdf
which shows that there is no evidence that vaccines are useful (unless you're one of those making tons of money off of it)

madamefreckle · 09/12/2009 21:15

Bristolboat, Pandermix sounds a lot more friendly, colourful and generally bear-like than pandemrix. (I imagine something tasty containing bamboo). Sorry for lowering the tone.

I'm going for the Celvapan as have been told i can, otherwise would've had the panda-mix (yay), no doubt about it. Majority of evidence suggests it's fine... and a lot more fine than a grim case of piggy flu.
(Have thought/read about it until i'm blue in the face and this is my first and final word).

Honeybee2010 · 14/12/2009 18:46

I have only had a skim read of this forum and will definitely return to it later but I want to add an initial comment having recently been warned by my husband about the potential risks of taking Squalene.
My sister was previously in the army and served in Iraq. Before being sent to Iraq she took Anthrax vaccine. Immediately upon returning (due to becoming sick on tour) she found that she had an auto immune triggered version of hypothyroidism (inactive thyroid). This was almost certainly (where do you get the proof from...) triggered by Anthrax vaccine. She is now on medication for this for life and would certainly not advise me to go near Squalene.
Additionally you may be interested to know that the level of Squalene in the Glaxo vaccine is 600 THOUSAND times higher than that used in the Anthrax vaccine.
I am 16 weeks pregnant and trying to navigate what to do, but based on the evidence so far, Glaxo vaccine is not coming near my baby.

jajoom · 14/12/2009 23:00

This thread makes me very sad.

My severely disabled son is due to have a lon-awaited Celvapen jab this weekend. He has a an egg allergy, otherwise I'd have given him the Pamdemix jab 4 weeks ago. I only hope after this senseless scaremongering there's a vaccine left for him....

IpsyDaisy · 24/01/2010 23:27

I don't mean to be rude but this is not senseless scaremongering we are all entitled to investigate the best possible options for our children whether they are severely disabled or not. Having a son with auto immune problems and Autism after his baby jags I do have the right to question if it is safe and ask for an alternative if it is safer, the fact that they have now removed the thimerosal from the vaccines makes you wonder? (Also Medical Journal: Autism Rates Decline as Mercury Removed from Childhood Vaccines www.aapsonline.org/press/nr-03-02-2006.php) This is just typical of our government choosing the cheaper option and we have to just accept that? I don't think so!

NotAnOtter · 24/01/2010 23:31

my two had pandemrix and barely tweaked
mercury is in other stuff
scaremongering not good

questioneverything · 25/01/2010 22:21

For the love of God, making an informed decision is not scaremongering. Reseaching and finding out what goes into your body is not wrong.

Faith in God has been replaced with faith in doctors. PEOPLE, most of the medical profession are not touching this one with a barge pole.

You can THINK FOR YOURSELF - or LINE UP OVER HERE LIKE SHEEPLE.

What about the man who pushed and pushed over thamlidomide, he pushed and pushed to get it stopped, everyone laughed at him and said he was a scaremonger, well would you just look, 40 years on the government apologises.

NotAnOtter · 25/01/2010 22:29

more recently though look at the guy who pushed and pushed over mmr

maybe we should leave medical research to those best qualified and stop playing 'net doctor'

questioneverything · 25/01/2010 22:33

There are court documented cases in the USA that have proven that MMR was a contributing factor in the development of autisim.

Who is qualified, who helped me when my child was ill for 10 weeks after the MMR, nobody, who suggested that my ill child should not be jabbed no-one, no I just went along not knowing any better, well I do now.

I am wasting my time here.

IpsyDaisy · 26/01/2010 23:24

I suppose the Swine Flu Vaccine disaster in the USA in 1976 should not have been questioned but just accepted as an "oops, oh well never mind...". Where was the medical research before that was forced on people? Oh that's right we just accept it and get on with it, who are we to question!

Dillith · 26/01/2010 23:34

You are not wasting your time questioneverything. Those are some great posts and I wholeheartedly agree.

IpsyDaisy · 27/01/2010 02:14

Since NotAnOtter thinks we should leave it to the medical field, the Medical Journal (written by those best qualified) clearly states in their journal that "Autism Rates Decline as Mercury Removed from Childhood Vaccines" www.aapsonline.org/press/nr-03-02-2006.php

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