plans for mass vaccination at schools in autumn

[pofacedandproud]

here

How do people feel about this?

Oh I really don't know!

I have 2 ds's. One is 3.8 and goes 1/2 days to nursery at a school, the other is 14 months and goes to a private nursery.

I work in a hospital - hands on with patients. I have only had to treat one pt so far who is currently being investigated for ? swine flu.

All of us, and my DH are well.

I shall be looking to all of your mn'ers who are better at locating relevant evidence than me for guidance please.

Peachy, et al, I actually have first hand experience of an autism scare, as my first daughter showed sign of autism regression at about 2 and a half. We didn;t give her the MMR, but opted, after a lot of soul searching for the single jabs.
We went into freefall at the time, and impemented a number of things which may or may not have influenced my daughter's further development, such as no TV, gluton free diet, omega oils. Luckily for us, she cameout of it, and shows no signs now of autism, but it was a long year or so, and we are as much in the dark now as then.
But in that time, I spent all my time researching autism, MMR, innoculations in general, and I have to say that after all that research, I came up believing that Wakefield's research was deeply flawed, and pounced upon by the media, ostensibly to sell newspapers.
I could rattle off a list of things which back up my beliefs about the MMR, but specifically, the one thig that stands out is that in Japan, after a bad batch of MMR, where it was banned for a number of years, the rates of autism did not fall but rose concurrent with the rest of the developed world.
Also, in consideration, I have a good friend who's boy has regressive autism, which started about the age of three and a half, who has never had a single vaccination in his life.
I also have a ralative whose child had measles and ended up nearly dying. She also did not have the MMR.
I was involved with Autism charities, and with autism fundraising, but that didn;t change my opinion as to where the cause lies.
I could go on at lenth as to what I think causes it, but I'm not sure here is the place.
We opted for the MMR with our youngest daughter, and had no problems.
I know we are unblievably lucky, in that we were one of the few who didn;t watch our first daughter fade away, as so many have, and I thank God every day for that, but, like I said, I speak from experience, and from a position of having researched the MMR till I could research no more, and I honestly believe that it is nothing to do with the cause of autism.
I'm sorry if I caused offence with my views on Wakefield, but, as I said, I've looked into it, and that's what I feel.
if you want, I'll supply you with some links that cast real doubt on his research.
All the best

wwmc a voluntary quarantine for the whole island of Gb just wouldn't work. You need people to go to work to run your electricity and other utilities. You'd still needs docs and nurses to tend the sick, police and army to stop criminals and yobs, and prison workers..ooh and TV producers and ...no internet!!!!!

"I could rattle off a list of things which back up my beliefs about the MMR, but specifically, the one thig that stands out is that in Japan, after a bad batch of MMR, where it was banned for a number of years, the rates of autism did not fall but rose concurrent with the rest of the developed world.
Also, in consideration, I have a good friend who's boy has regressive autism, which started about the age of three and a half, who has never had a single vaccination in his life.
I also have a ralative whose child had measles and ended up nearly dying. She also did not have the MMR."

Japan replaced MMR with single vaccinations given in the same day. (actually it wasn't quite so clear cut, but that was on offer and was given reasonably routinely).Autism rates are irrelevant to Wakefiled's theory as the numbers believed to have been affected are too small. Doesn't mean they don't exist.

Lots of routes to autism which is most certainly not one thing anyway. More a variety of different conditions. Small number potentially via the MMR. My son regressed following a natural viral infection is now severely autistic. (Actually 8 years after this regression he has now been referred to a neurologist). All medically accepted, written in his notes. Doesn't mean the children I know who regressed following a vaccine rather than wild virus have parents who are mistaken.

Why must we always descend into the MMR debate? Yes we all disagree! Appreciate you are all personally heated about this but people, it's all about the oinking on here

Oh crikey. My DD doesn't want to go to big school as it is. Without a jab too.

I'm in 2 minds about the swine flu vaccination just now.
I'd assumed not to let DD have it. She's fit, we can ride it out etc.
But having seen a mum I know 2 or 3 weeks ago while her daughter was poorly with swine flu, and how scared and upset she was as her girl was so terribly sick - I think I'm changing my mind.

I remember queuing up for a rubella vaccine at school so I'm not surprised they want to give the swine flu vaccine in schools. My son is allergic to egg so I've been told he can't have the vaccine by a children's allergy doctor. However, the GP thought he would be able to have it since he had the MMR, which shows the level of ignorance amongst GPs as to the risks of the swine flu vaccine to egg allergic children (it is cultured in eggs, the MMR jab isn't but used to be). I'd be surprised if the schools are geared up to deal with severe allergic responses when vaccinating a large group so I hope they are going to warn people that those with egg allergy can't have the vaccine.

I would rather wear a mask.

With regards MMR, I think Whomovedmychocolate is right. THis is going off topic. I have my beliefs, others have thiers. We should agree to differ and move on. SOrry if I gave it the initial push to go off topic, but it was in relation to why people seem so scared by vaccination in this country. Back on track?

You brought it up Gotte. Nobody else did. You assumed one single reason why people might hesitate.

People are more concerned now now NOT because they are scared, paranoid, irrational. It is often because they have read a lot more about the issue and they know a lot more about the issue, and quite frankly, many think twice before they buy it.

There have been lies, damned lies and people know it. Times have changed.

Agree, swine flu nothing to do with MMR, just correcting the Japan story.

Do think the public nature of swine flu vaccine testing has demonstrated how short vaccine safety trials are though. Which is a good thing if you're wanting to make an informed choice.

Like any vaccination I think it comes down to personal risk factors. For some the risk of the virus will be enough to go for the jab and presumably they will be pleased to have the option. Others may prefer to go with risking getting the illness for various reasons. What you won't do is persuade is people who believe their child is at risk from the vaccine to have it.

Same as any jab really.

Stuffitlama

Let it go. Everyone else is.

This is one thing I worry about being a parent. If the debate was about having the vaccine myself, its my health/life I am affecting. I worry about making the wrong decision about my daughter. She's going to be four in October, I dont know whether to let her have it or not (under 5's are in a "risk group")
DD, myself, DH, my dad, my mum, my sister, my DH's boss have all been really poorly - none of us think it was swine flu (although we had all the symptoms) but it that was "just a bad cold" and not swine flu, I do wonder how she'd react to swine flu

ok Gotte, just don't be so glib next time

i had swine flu and was seriously ill and wouldn't want my kids to have been that ill luckily they didn't get it as i icolated myseld from them and it is so contageous.I think if the government made it compulsary thats not fair as every parent has the right to choose what their child will have.

stuffitllama - it was tedious before, holding grudges just makes things very, very dull. Gotte was smart enough to accept the comment and move on from it, can we all do that? Please?

haze36 they can't make it compulsory, it's against human rights to force treatment in all but the criminally insane.

Heard something on the local news yesterday about vaccinating all kids in Exeter to see what the side effects are. Anyone else know anything about this?

What?? I live in Exeter

They can stick it up their fucking arses, they're not using my kids for guinea pigs

Quite; we're v near Exeter, and I was thinking exactly the same. Can't find it on the net though, going through Spotlight as we speak...

I believe there are seven test areas - they are not places you'd expect actually but statistically they have a 'balanced' population (ie are generally representative of the populus as opposed to sane - which is why Exeter is such a great choice ).

Greenie - are you still a snotfest?

I have just come back from holiday...and without surprise found a swine flu vaccine debate in full florish.

I am not going to enter into the politically stuff cos politics confuses me . I will enter into sciencey stuff though. I will also refer those interested in the vaccine safety type debate FOR THIS VACCINE to this thread. The whole thread is a pretty balanced but if you skip to teh last dozen or so posts I did some reasearch for Soopty around adjuvants and stuff, and fast-track clinical trials for those interested.

To answer a couple of sciency questions from the beginning of teh thread.

Firstly the virus would have to undergo THOUSANDS of mutations to avoid the vaccine. The vaccine will either be a whole virus (which has been inactivated), or synthetic parts of the virus which are basically injected. Your body will then chew up those parts and make antibodies to each of those chewed parts. So your body will effectively make lots of DIFFERENT antibodies to teh same virus. In order for the vaccine to fail against a mutant it would have to mutate to change EVERTY one of those chewed parts. Whilst that is not impossible it is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY (get the drift) unlikely.

In order to mutate the virus has to have a host (and we are talking about mutate he NOT recombine which is totally different). That host is the people that it infects. So if we vaccinate before it mutates it won't be able to mutate because it will have no host IYSWIM (or at least that is the most extreme scenario - but the more people that vaccinate the less hosts that are available, and the less chance of mutating).

To answer WMMC regarding vaccines made in cells v eggs. In thoery the cell based methods will eliminate the possibility of ended up with a batch contaminated with live virulent virus as it will never have seen a live virus in it's production - which is in contrast to most egg production methods. In thoery the vaccine product will have less history to support it - but mock vaccines produced in EXACTLY the same way have obviously undergone thorough clinical trials (there is a link near teh end of that thread on clinical requirements of mock vaccines). It is also, as a pharmaceutical product, produced in a similar way to insulin; which I believe have a history of safe use.

However, before we get carried away looking at cell based vaccine production - I believe (and can't find a reference now) that it is GSK and Bayer that the UK government has placed orders with. There are preliminary details of the GSK vaccine here. And sorry but it contains the proprietry adjuvant AS03 (I think all the vaccines will have an adjuvant of some description - most do). Unconfirmed (i.e. from someones blog) suggests that this is a Squalene based adjuvant. I have never heard of squalene - so will remain neutral on the effects of squalene.

I know nothing about the Bayer vaccine.

Twasn't me the cells v eggs bit - I know about that. But you forgot to add: 'listen carefully, this is the science bit' at the start of your post so no-one will read it anyway

Sorry it was badKitten....I am always confusing you two...not sure why

Evil bitch or bad kitten - I can see where that would be confusing

Interesting to read - thanks Prefetparfait