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Problem/Dependent Drinkers and Alcoholics (recovering or active) Support III

1000 replies

ornamentalhaggis · 12/02/2008 04:19

Time for a new thread already!

Welcome to the thread, the purpose of this is to give anyone who is having any trouble with their drinking, a safe place to come and post about it honestly and without judgement.

There are many of us that use the thread for support and encouragement: some in recovery, others just needing a place to share about their worries. It's been going on in one form of another for a while now and has helped many people.

Thank you to all of those who have kept it going thus far, and welcome to anyone who has decided the time has come to ask for help.

Everybody's welcome, no matter what stage your drinking is at.

Jump right in, the water's fine

kokeshi

OP posts:
BrassicMonkey · 15/03/2008 20:18

jellibabe, a few of us chat on Facebook. I'll CAT you my email addy so you can look me up and then add the others.

Anyone else that wants to chat, CAT me or post on here.

PO, thinking of you xx

Daisy, early pregnancy is very, very hard. Thinking of you too xx

teasle · 15/03/2008 20:55

Ooh, same here! noone ever CATS me thought. I smell.

teasle · 15/03/2008 20:55

THOUGH, I meant THOUGH

ornamentalhaggis · 15/03/2008 20:57

Oh yes, anyone can add me on facebook too.

I'm disappointed we didn't manage to the party tonight. Dp has a really bad migraine so is lying beside me on the couch doped up on co-codamol and neurofen. Poor soul.

How are people finding saturday night?

OP posts:
ornamentalhaggis · 15/03/2008 21:02

I signed up for CAT last year teasle and very few people ever contacted me!

I've posted my email address loads of times on here so I don't mind folks knowing how to contact me directly.

OP posts:
teasle · 15/03/2008 21:04

Oh, you know, the usual round of excess and debauchery.

I get migraines- light tends to trigger them- they are horrid. I get the 'aura' thing beforehand too, where my vision is really affected. Havn't had one for ages actually, must be my lentil and yoghurt cardigan diet!

Shame you missed your party though. Probably a decent sleep will help?

glowwormish · 15/03/2008 21:31

Absolutely exhausted and wondering how I'm going to cope. Someone said that they didn't wnat to post when they were upset...same here but can't think of anything upbeat to say and its difficult to type.

lackaDAISYcal · 15/03/2008 22:34

just catching up on the posts. Feeling a lot more human today...cake and a tea and a great chat witha very good friend have made a huge difference. Oh and the support of a very caring and loving, but much under-appreciated DH.

PurpleOne, Ihaven't seen your other thread, but just wnated to say I hope you're OK

I'm on facebook too. Im in the MN group, pic of me ice-sketing and initials JJ, or else email is daisybump at a yahoo dot co dot uk

(someone better add me as a friend or I'll feel like norma-nae-mates )

and teasle PMSL at your "super-hunky-dory-recovering -alki-with -the scary light -shining-from -her eyes...type thing"

jellibabe · 16/03/2008 10:46

Mission accomplished. Sleepover was a success too. Will have to stop surfing the net until the small hours as I need reinforced matches today.

teasle · 16/03/2008 10:50

HI Jellibabe- did they stay up all night giggling then? Thats what usually happens in our house, and then they are in AWFUL moods from the afternoon until bedtime.

teasle · 16/03/2008 10:51

Glowormish how are you feeling today?

jellibabe · 16/03/2008 11:04

Yes still up at 12:30 . Will probably need to bodyguard the small but annoying brother from late afternoon.

We are going swimming today so that should finish them off (am me).

PurpleOne · 17/03/2008 02:21

is anyone here tonight?

glowwormish · 17/03/2008 12:53

Hello everyone

Teasle- I felt AWFUL over the weekend and dp was at a conference. He was really concerned about me but I told him I needed to be on my own (and I did DESPERATELY). I could barely speak to him (nothing he had done). I haven't felt that bad for a long time. However I got a little sleep yesterday afternoon (with ds) and felt loads better. I think its just exhaustion and stress tbh. dp came home and was upbeat about our future and it really perked me up.

I can't go into work today, can't face it and am looking forward to spending some time alone. I'll still get some work done (as I can work from home.) I still feel guilty leaving my dp to cope but tbh I HAVE to take some time for myself. I feel like I have had to flick the off switch, no choice.

Hope everyone else is good, or if not I hope they can gain some support and feel a little uplifted.

teasle · 17/03/2008 14:30

HI Glowormish- you sound just absolutely worn out and stressed.
Can you and DP sit and work out some sort of plan of action to help alleviate any of this for you (and him too)?

Its a good idea to try and look after yourself a bit, so I hope today has gone ok.

How has everyones weekend gone?

I'm going to check in around 10ish tonight when I come back from a meeting(AA), so please don't hide, its nice to see if everyones doing ok.

OH- whats 'wet brain' by the way?

kokeshi · 17/03/2008 22:02

Evening all. Teasle: wet brain is wernicke's encepalopathy/Korsakoff's syndrome, and you don't want to be getting that. Basically alcohol induced dementia. No short term memory or, in fact, ability to do anything for yourself. This is precisely WHY I'm always banging on about B vitamins and thiamine. The age that it presents in female alcohol abusers is scarily young - 30 to 49.

Here's one of my blurb, just for you

Korsakoff's Syndrome

This syndrome involves profound impairment of memory due to thiamine deficiency, most commonly due to long term alcohol abuse.

Epidemiology
Incidence 1/1000 population in US. A survey of new long-stay mental hospital patients in Scotland found that 9% had a diagnosis of alcohol-related brain damage, mainly Korsakoff's1.

  • Peak onset in males 40-59 years, females 30-49 years.
  • Approximately 2% of alcohol abusers develop syndrome.
  • Much greater risk in continuous rather than binge drinking.
  • No racial predilection is observed.
  • The condition affects males slightly more frequently than it affects females.

Pathogenesis Chronic alcohol consumption can result in thiamine deficiency by causing;

  • inadequate nutritional thiamine intake
  • decreased absorption of thiamine from the gastrointestinal tract
  • impaired thiamine utilization in the cells.

People differ in their susceptibility to thiamine deficiency, however, and different brain regions also may be more or less sensitive to this condition2
Thiamine is a cofactor required by three enzymes involved in two pathways of carbohydrate metabolism. A reduction in thiamine can interfere with numerous cellular functions. Alcohol-related neuronal loss has been documented in specific regions of the cerebral cortex, hypothalamus and cerebellum3. No change is found in basal ganglia, nucleus basalis, or serotonergic raphe nuclei. Many of these regions which are normal in uncomplicated alcoholics are damaged in people with Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome (WKS).

Chronic subdural haematoma has been documented as a cause of WKS. The symptoms persisted after resolution of the haematoma as a result of organic atrophic changes of both the frontal and temporal lobes due to long-term compression4.
It has also been reported following nutritional stress e.g. laparotomy for small bowel obstruction, followed by total parenteral nutrition for one month5, bariatric surgery or rapid weight-loss6.Other chronic conditions that may cause a thiamine deficiency include AIDS, Hyperemesis gravidarum, thyrotoxicosis, cancers that have spread throughout the body, long-term dialysis and congestive heart failure (when treated with long-term diuretic therapy).

Presentation
Symptoms

  • Vision changes; Double vision; Eye movement abnormalities; Eyelid drooping.
  • Loss of muscle coordination; Unsteady, uncoordinated walking.
  • Loss of memory, can be profound.
  • Inability to form new memories
  • Hallucinations

Signs.

  • Examination of the nervous system may show polyneuropathy
  • Reflexes may be decreased (or of abnormal intensity), or abnormal reflexes may be present.
  • Testing of gait and coordination.
  • Muscles may be weak and may show atrophy.
  • Eyes show abnormalities of movement.
  • Blood pressure and body temperature may be low.
  • Pulse may be rapid.
  • The person may appear cachectic.

In addition there are the following cognitive features;

  • Confabulation : falsification of memory in clear consciousness. Very characteristic of the syndrome. Can answer questions promptly with inaccurate and sometimes bizarre answer.
  • Memory loss: anterograde amnesia is the main feature of syndrome. Loss of memory for events occurring after the onset of the disorder. Unable to learn and repeat simple pieces of information or learn new tasks. Often disorientated in time and place.
  • Retrograde amnesia. Loss of memory for events before onset of disorder. Some memory of distant events may be preserved. Telescoping of events is characteristic e.g. says something happened recently when it took place many years ago.
  • Patient usually mentally alert with vocabulary, comprehension, motor skills, social habits and naming ability maintained.

Differential Diagnosis

  • Dementia
  • cerebral ischaemia
  • brain tumour

Investigations FBC, MCV, U&E's, liver function tests, urea, creatinine, glucose and cholesterol should be taken.

  • Serum B1 levels may be low.
  • Pyruvate is elevated.
  • Red cell Transketolase activity is decreased.
  • If the history is significant for chronic (long-term) alcohol abuse, serum or urine alcohol levels may be elevated.

Associated Diseases

  • Wernicke's encephalopathy
  • peripheral neuropathy
  • paraesthesia
  • malnutrition
  • liver disease
  • delirium tremens (around 10%)
  • beriberi (about 5%)

Management
Non-Drug Address problem of alcohol abuse and diet.

Drugs

  • Thiamine IM or IV plus vitamin B complex or multi-vitamins. Some improvement in 50-75% of cases, complete remission in 20%7. A Cochrane Review found there was insufficient evidence from randomized controlled clinical trials to guide clinicians in the dose, frequency, route or duration of thiamine treatment of WKS due to alcohol abuse8. Although one randomised controlled trial showed a significant difference in favour of the 200mg/day compared with the 5 mg/day dose.
  • The CSM (1989) has advised that there is a small risk of serious allergic (anaphylactic) reactions occurring during or shortly after the administration of parenteral thiamine. It recommends that use is restricted to people in whom parenteral treatment is essential; Intravenous injections are given slowly, over 10 minutes; and that facilities for treating anaphylaxis should be available when it is administered.
  • Memantine, a NMDA antagonist,(10 mg) has been reported as safe and well tolerated in small clinical trials. The preliminarily findings of a study with 16 patients suggested that memantine was effective in the treatment of dementia in Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome. A mini mental state examination demonstrated a significant and clinically relevant benefit for memantine relative to placebo9.

Prognosis The mortality rate is 10-20%. Prognosis depends on the stage of disease at presentation and on prompt treatment.

  • Full recovery of ocular function generally occurs.
  • Fine horizontal nystagmus can persist in as many as 60% of cases.
  • Approximately 40% of patients have complete recovery from ataxia.
  • Only 20% of patients recover completely from amnestic deficit.

With co-existing Wernicke's encephalopathy death occurs in 10-15% within 3 weeks and less than 50% within 3 years.

Prevention

  • Vitamins
  • alcohol avoidance

References Used

kokeshi · 17/03/2008 22:04

Do you know someone with it? I've been to a ward full of patients with wet brain and it's fucking frightening. It's pretty much the point of no return for people, I think personally death is preferable. Seriously.

expatinscotland · 17/03/2008 22:13

Hello, all!

I'm here.

How was everyone's weekend?

Was 7 weeks pregnant this past Friday and the nausea has really kicked in, so needless to say, not a drop of booze here - or a lot of other food and drink stuffs.

Good to see you back, kokeshi

kokeshi · 17/03/2008 22:20

Oh Expat! How was MAdrid? I read your thread about chorizo on the way back up...boak!

Yeah, that ornamentalhaggis just didn't feel like me, a bit too florid I methinks

How are you feeling about being at the seven week mark, in yourself I mean, and apart from being generally scunnered with food?

expatinscotland · 17/03/2008 22:22

I feel very pregnant, which I'm thankful for, this time round.

Gone off pomegranate juice .

Might seek solace in a bottle of Irn Bru, the cure for all evils.

expatinscotland · 17/03/2008 22:22

Madrid is a BLAST.

Everyone, give up the booze and use the money to go to SPAIN .

teasle · 17/03/2008 22:27

HI there,

Thanks Kokeshi- feels funnt calling you that again- feels sort of old and fusty now, your name. Thanks for the info.

HI expat- I suppose its good that you feel awful- means the pregnancy hormones are kicking in- thats what people said to me when I felt like SHITE! Its weird the things you go off and crave isn't it?

expatinscotland · 17/03/2008 22:30

It's sort of like, from my past life, I had a list of Things I Will Never Drink Again. These included vodka, gin and tequila.

From all my pregnancies, I now have a list of Things I Will Never Eat Again.

And chorizo just made the list!

kokeshi · 17/03/2008 22:52

I second that about Spain, I went to Barcelona in 2005 and had and urge just to pack up and move there to sit amongst the dread-locked drama students in Parc de la Ciutadella. Was so cosmopolitan.

Fusty? FUSTY??? I was thinking it was looking quite slick!

Irn-bru is supposed to be a great hangover cure but I found vodka for breakfast was much more effective.

Or as an alternative, lab ethanol. When I was working on redox regulation of RNA synthesis in rat liver mitochondria I used aforementioned 96% pure ethanol to lyse the poor wee rat's liver cells.

So, I got a big measuring cylinder and diluted the pure ethanol down to blue label strength to go with my fresh orange juice. Yes, indeed. LAb work is way more fun when you're half-cut.

teasle · 17/03/2008 22:54

I used to sneak off into the fume cupboard with chloroform or was it some ether thing- can't remember. Aaah, the innocent heady days of chemistry A level.

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