Refusing to vaccinate

[popsadaisy]

I went to vaccinate my one year old yesterday and I was so surprised when the nurse told me that some parents still refuse vaccinations. I am genuinely intrigued as to why this is?

It would serve everyone to be well informed. I have told you where you can find the info. It's up to you.

Sorry, I didn’t think anyone would seriously suggest ‘search vaccinations on YouTube’ as a source of being informed.

Just because someone’s posted it on the internet, doesn’t make it true. It’s terrifying that you and others are posting these things as ‘fact’ and deriding others for not knowing them to be true when you don’t seem to have evaluated the information yourself.

When the NHS (which has a track record of credibility albeit not perfect) says ‘you aren’t infectious after vaccination, even if you have vaccine-related measles) I still look for the primary sources of that information.

‘Random on Youtube’ has a considerably higher bar to jump in terms of establishing credibility and motivation. If you simply believe what they’re saying because ‘presumably’ they have reliable sources you’re at risk of being a patsy for people with vested interests.

Before you share, check the source. That goes for everything. Anything else is irresponsible and foolish.

So am I right in thinking that the people who chose not to vaccinate their children are relying on the rest of us to vaccinate ours to protect them?

Some are selfish. Some are conspiracy theorists. There’s one poster who doesn’t believe in viruses....

I’ve got a sodding virus at the moment. ITS REAL PEOPLE! 🦠

That comment was trying to scare people and simply neglected the fact that anyone can come down with measles.

And sorry, this is also nonsense, particularly in the equivalence it seeks to draw.

The unvaccinated can come down with measles, and are quite likely to do so if exposed to the virus.

Most of those who have had a two-dose course of vaccine are not able to come down with measles. They are immune.

A very small number will not have been left immune by the vaccine. It is possible to test for this, though most won’t for a good reason: They, the unvaccinated and the immunocompromised rely on herd immunity for protection. Which is fine and will be pretty effective, unless the number of heathy unvaccinated drops too low.

Selfishness, stupidity and lack of critical thinking.
I'd love for anti-vaxxers to be banned from registering at school and from publuc transport etc. But then I'd be worried about potential for unchecked abuse.
People forget when they have kids that they're not just 'theirs', rather their child is a member of society and we have a responsibility towards society and our communities.

Oh no Fekko. You don’t. It’s apparently a combination of toxins and stress, from memory.

For example, the Spanish flu was caused by the collective trauma of WWI (though it was never clear why the highest death rates were on pretty unscathed Pacific islands...)

Bollocks it is. It’s a fucking virus that is driving me demented. If I would wish/woo it away I certainly would try!

Said poster is sadly missing from this thread...

@Aurea - Vaccinations don't always work. I had two lots of MMR as a child That's not how vaccines work, that's why you still got measles.

The idea of vaccines is that IF you contract the disease you are vaccinated against, the effects of that disease on your body are lesser than if you were vaccinated.

They are not magic, they don't prevent you catching the disease.

“It’s a fucking virus that is driving me demented”
Would you like me to do some distance Reiki?

Can we please stop calling these people anti-vaxxers. They are pro-diseasers.

cantpissinpeace

If you don't want your child vaccinated against rubella presumably that means they aren't having the mmr vaccine?

Are you vaccinating them against measles and mumps?

Immunity means that when you catch it your immune system deals with it so quickly that you don't see the symptoms. It's not a magic barrier that stops it getting in.

So am I right in thinking that the people who chose not to vaccinate their children are relying on the rest of us to vaccinate ours to protect them? What if we all had this mentality?

Yes but I honestly don't think they understand this. They don't seem to grasp that if it wasn't for us vaccinating our children...their children would be far more at risk. Or are they really just so selfish and entitled that they think their children are more precious than ours? I know an anti-vaxxer who has said that she will not let her child join any sports clubs etc. when he's older to keep him safe, she'll do all fun activities with him at home. When there's any word of a measles break out, she's so on edge and stressed but her fear of autism is what's driving this whole obsession. She swears a doctor advised her not to vaccinate her children because her brother has autism.

My imaginary virus was noticed by two shop assistants today (2 different stores) who both asked me if I was ok and if i needed to sit down (my throat is making alarming noises). All in our heads...

‘Catching’ a disease/infection doesn’t have a scientific basis, does it?

Is it the point at which you come into contact with any virus? In which case almost all of us will catch a cold every day, but our immune response is effective. Is it the ability to transmit to others? Is it the point at which a blood test would register infection?

I’m honestly interested in whether there’s a consensus/agreed basis to this.

Is it the point at which you come into contact with any virus? In which case almost all of us will catch a cold every day, but our immune response is effective. Is it the ability to transmit to others? Is it the point at which a blood test would register infection?

I was told by my ds respiratory Dr that we all catch the same amount of colds, around 7-10 a year. But the difference is how you are effected by it. I would assume the viral levels in your system need to be a certain level for you to be contagious. So a healthy person that can easily fight the cold won't be infectious.

No one is immune from virus's and bacteria getting into their body, it's just how your immune system fights it.

No one is immune from virus's and bacteria getting into their body, it's just how your immune system fights it.

I think we all agree on that! Just interested in how others understand and use the terminology.

@vivideye Anti vaxxing is the ultimate form of white privilege, in my view.
YES!
As someone who has worked with communities in developing countries, a thousand times yes.

@Greencustard that poor child. She sounds like a very anxious parent! My OH was telling me last night that his younger brother didn't have any vaccinations as a baby (he's 16 now) because apparently at the time there was a lot in the media about them causing autism. The ironic thing is he was diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome when he was 10!! He also apparently got very ill when he was 3 and his doctor was furious with my OH's parents that he hadn't been vaccinated. When I was speaking to the nurse about it on Friday she was saying that it's alarming the amount of parents now that are refusing to vaccinate (she seemed pretty pissed off with them all as well tbh!)

She sounds like a very anxious parent!

Yes she is, I actually feel sorry for her at times, she truly believes she's doing the best thing for her child...but I feel sorrier for her child.

When I was speaking to the nurse about it on Friday she was saying that it's alarming the amount of parents now that are refusing to vaccinate

This woman I'm talking about, is in a group of 12 who all had DC at around the same time, only 2 have had their kids vaccinated. The pressure they put on the other 2 not to do it was unreal.

It's time that vaccination was compulsory before children are admitted into school.

@Jenny17, someone who has been vaccinated is much less likely to get measles, and therefore the vaccinated pose much less of a risk to the immuno-compromised and infants than do the unvaccinated. Really, how hard is that to understand?

I'm old enough to have lived in countries where the after-effects of polio left people begging in the streets. I've known people who had polio. I almost died of measles, aged 3. My (much older) cousin survived smallpox and still has the scars. I know a couple whose first child was left profoundly disabled because his mother had rubella when expecting him. I could go on.

A combo of these examples and the scientific evidence led me to get my kids vaccinated. I couldn't have lived with myself if either they had become seriously ill or infected someone else and caused damage to them or their unborn child.

I wish I could time-travel anti-vaxxers back to the streets of, say, Nairobi, in, say, 1970.

Sorry, I didn’t think anyone would seriously suggest ‘search vaccinations on YouTube’ as a source of being informed.
I didn't tell you that at all in reference to the specific fact that post referred to.

@Jenny17, someone who has been vaccinated is much less likely to get measles, and therefore the vaccinated pose much less of a risk to the immuno-compromised and infants than do the unvaccinated. Really, how hard is that to understand?
Agreed. In context of the "unvaccinated person cooing at your baby scare story" any infected person could spread the disease. Less likely goes out the water if you get infected. There was a case of a vaccinated person who infected at least another vaccinated person.

So am I right in thinking that the people who chose not to vaccinate their children are relying on the rest of us to vaccinate ours to protect them?
That would be dumb and selfish if it was the case but I suspect that it is not the case for everyone.

There is a need for the medical community to have a proper debate on this.

The medical community have had a proper debate. They just don't give any credence to your whack theories.

I also think that unvaccinated children should not be able to access state education. It's a an appalling middle class white conceit and it sickens me