Dependent Drinkers and Alcoholics (recovering or active) Support Thread

[BrassicMonkey]

The last thread will close soon, but I want this one to be about everybody, not just me. So Hidesit, Earlgrey, SoSo and anyone else that needs support please post and keep me company.

I've lapsed again tonight, which is a shame as I hoped I'd be able to start this off on a postive note.

Link to the last thread.

I stopped posting on the old thread because I wasn't making any progress and got sick of the promises I was making to myself but not honouring.

In common with many other people I drank a glass of wine with my evening meal. This turned into two etc etc and I was capable of polishing off a couple of bottles a night and thinking that really gin would be a better option.

It really was a problem and still is one tbh. Thought about just cutting out completely. I have managed to cut out drinking from Mon-Thurs which was a terrific step but Friday night is my absolute lifeline.

But I did want to let you all know that I am thinking of you all - especially Brassic - and thank you for carrying on posting. It is a source of support to me to know that other people are trying and controlling their demons.

With love xx

Hi all thought I would check in to the new thread. I did not drink last night for the first time in absolutely ages. DH was away and I decided not to have anything. This morning I feel fantastic after a lovely deep sleep. I keep checking how I feel and ask myself why oh why do I do it when not drinking makes me feel this good. I suppose it's that moment in the evening when I actually crave a drink and last night was no exception. I physically crave a drink which is really scary. Anyway love to read all the posts and Brassic you are an amazing lady to have come this far. I will not drink again tonight and try to hold on to the lovely way I feel today.
XX

IF, your post wasn?t boring, quite the opposite in fact. I understand why you were reluctant to post it, but rather than try and identify with your ?recovery? from dependant drinking, I can see why we?re different. I?ve never wanted a couple of drinks at home a couple of times a week. I?ve genuinely never seen the appeal to it. I think alcohol tastes vile and it?s there to be used rather than enjoyed. I was talking to a male friend last week who I always thought was an alcoholic as he gets completely wrecked when he goes out. It pissed me off a lot when he said that he has a couple of beers every night at home/in the pub as well, but doesn?t go over the top and is in bed at a reasonable time so that he can get up for work in the morning. It made me feel really useless. What?s in me that I can?t do that too?

I wish I?d seen that Dispatches programme. I found a web page about it and some of the examples were terrifying. Well, it all was really. This is probably just me, but I find the guidelines of maximum 3 per night (for women) a bit worrying. It seems like an invitation to drink every day as well as having the occasional over-indulgence. I wonder if the guidelines will be looked into again soon.

Hi Flowertop ? I agree, the best thing about being alcohol free is the day time. My taster last week brought that right home to me and I?d forgotten how crap the morning after really is. I crave a drink at about 8pm each night. I think about it all day, but in the evening I have these ?hmm, what now? thoughts and I get really wound up and anxious about it. Good luck for tonight.

Cubby, how are you doing?

Regular v binge drinking

The government changed their advice on weekly units it to a daily measure because they were concerned that people would think it was OK to drink all the units in one go. In actual fact as far as the long term health risk are concerned, regular drinking is no better than binge drinking - it is the overall alcohol intake that counts.

These figures are all based on the modelling of an alcohol intake across a whole population. As far as serious liver disease is concerned the risks start at at around 3-4 bottles of wine a week, and are relatively small at this level. As alcohol intake increases then the risks increase correspondingly - see the liver section for details.

As liver doctors we are concerned about the daily drinking advice because daily drinking is pretty much guaranteed to cause tolerance where the amount you need to drink to get the same buzz gradually increases.

If you do have a drink most days then you may be storing up trouble for yourself.

Drink-free days

Try not to drink alcohol every day, if you are a moderately heavy drinker give yourself a rest for at least two to three days a week.

Some of the research that we are doing in Southampton is starting to suggest that this may be the most important thing of all.

If you try to cut out alcohol from Monday to Thursday and find it difficult then you probably have a degree of alcohol dependency, and this in itself is something that you should be thinking about.

this website here is very interesting as it seems to be saying it is more dangerous to drink little and often as you build up tolerance to it. (btw, this site is linked on the British Liver Foundation site)

That's a great website, gulp, thanks for the link.

BM we do have a different attitude to booze to each other. I have never enjoyed being drunk, even when I had my phase of drinking heavily I never wanted to feel drunk. The feeling I like is the lovely sudden rush of warmth you get with the first drink so one drink can usually be enough for me now. When I was drinking more I wanted to repeat that feeling throughout the day so I was a steady drinker. I'd never have done what you managed to do and only drink in the evenings, I drank slowly and steadily all day, so I never ever got blind drunk but I maintained that relaxed feeling. I actually deeply dislike drinking in the day now. I went for lunch with someone a week or so ago and had two bottles of beer and I felt like crap for the rest of the day, tired, shaky, slightly sick.

My drinking phase I think was like the difference between chronic depression and depression related to an event. Some people get depressed when life has become hard or there's a death to deal with whereas some people are depressed all the time. I drank when my life was, for me, unbearably difficult and when life got easier again i no longer needed to drink like that. My father drank all the time when he wasn't teetotal. He could down a bottle of gin a day and still hold a very responsible job, quite amazing really. Life with him at home was hell though. I still remember that small of alcohol thinly disguised by polo mints whenever he came near at those times. When he wasn't drinking (which was most of my childhood fortunately) he was the most adorable man.

Good link Gulp.

I do think the new guidelines have made it seem much more acceptable for alcohol to be part of your daily routine. Before reading that I did think that binge drinking all your weekly units on a Saturday night was worse than spreading them out through the week, but also that most people don't give up the occasional blow-out so are more than likely to be both binging as well as daily drinking.

I know when I was a teenager I would drink until I was sick every weekend but because I wasn't drinking every day my tolerance remained quite low and I wasn't exceeding the maximum weekly units.

Obviously, I'm not blaming the DoH for me being an alcoholic - when I was drinking heavily I didn't know what day of the week it was most of the time, let alone how many units I was allowed to drink. It's frightening that so many people are unwittingly creating a potential big problem in future years though, especially as they think they are drinking responsibly.

Another thing I've been thinking of is the labelling on bottles of alcohol. Why is it that food manufacturers have to provide nutritional information but alcohol products don't give clear information about how many units they contain? I only know how to work units out because it was explained to me at the substance abuse clinic and because it's relatively easy with spirits as they are all around 40% (so 40 units per litre). It's quite complicated to work out the units in wine though and even more so because most people don't drink the same brand all the time and we don't all own the same size wine glasses. I think the label should say how many units the bottle contains.

I'm glad you're posting on here IF. I was amazed when I read on the other thread about how you started drinking, the advice you got from psychotherapist, your preganancy and your dad's alcoholism. I know we're different but to me it's really interesting and well, unique really.

I think the difference between an alcoholic and not though is that people who aren't don't really give these guidelines much thought and don't plan their drinking etc.It is because you have a problem with it that you keep going over it all.Dp used to try to have a 3 drink limit when he was trying to moderate it was only years later that he realised 'normal'drinkers don't do this.It is an illness and no ones fault but unfortunately it needs to be tackled which is the hard bit.To me the govt guidelines are helpful it just shows the power of alcohol when it is not good for you

I've kept up with all your posts BM. Your fight is very familiar to me both through witnessing my father's experience and having my own problem. Dp's father died of alcoholic liver disease 2 Christmasses ago. That was another different story. He'd drunk all his life, dp remembers how he'd finish work, go to the Conservative Club, then come home just as they were going to bed around 8pm. Then he'd spend most of the weekend at the Conservative Club. I've no idea how much he drank but when he retired he ended up spending 7 days a week at his club and was warned by his GP numerous times that his liver was in serious trouble. The Christmas before he died he actually quit drinking for about 3 months and he was really quite a changed man, you could talk to him, he could eat (previously he didn't eat at all as his stomach was so unwell with all the booze) etc. but he started again, slowly at first, then more and more rapidly til he was on a constant bender really. He'd go out to the club at 11am, come home at 8pm and go to bed. One evening he went to bed then called dp's mother as he'd haemorrhaged blood from his oesophagus all over the floor. He went into hospital, dp said he'd turned bright yellow all over even the whites of his eyes, and they didn't think he'd live. They put him on the detox medications and various other things and a week later he was sitting up in bed. They said he could go home but he was terminally ill and over the next 6 months would deteriorate. He didn't make it home as he had another enormous oesophageal bleed and died during it. It was incredibly traumatic for dp's family. His mum is in total denial that he ever had a drinking problem but dp and his sister could see what was happening. He was 63 when he died, he'd only been retired for 3 years. I feel as though I never knew him as he was so drunk every time I saw him that he could barely talk to me.

Noddy, I totally agree with you. I know too much about alcoholism to ever think that I can be blase about it. prior to my problem I literally never thought about alcohol. It wouldn't have entered my head to have a bottle or can of anything in the house. Now I do think about it and feel very wary about it. If there's a 'do' on at work at which there'll be wine, I avoid it. I wouldn't do that if I thought I was totally out of the woods. And I never drink regularly, it really is the odd can of lager now if dp brings some home or we're out in the sun. I haven't touched anything stronger for years and years.

One of my biggest problems at the moment actually is a very dear friend whose dd is my dd's closest chum. She drinks a bottle of white wine a day. If I ever go round with dd for tea she so desperately tries to foist some wine onto me and I really don't want to have it, especially at that time of day. It's ended up where I avoid going over there and tend to invite them here although she often brings a bottle with her!

It is horrible watching people die of alcohol. A friend died at the age of 33 having been drinking heavily since she was 8. Her behaviour became completely unpredictable and if you weren't aware of the alcohol problem you would have thought she was psychotic. I'm glad you've managed to tackle your drinking IF. I'm fine when I've laid off the booze for a few days, then the whole thing cranks up again. I don't think there's room for me here and really I think it makes me feel a whole lot worse and more paranoid about liver damage reading so much about it! Fear is a terrible thing and drinking to overcome it makes the whole thing worse in the long run. It's pretty bloody lonely. I don't think alcohol is the problem, but there are a lot of issues that lead to it for me and at the moment it swings in the balance (again).

Blimey hellobello, how does someone start drinking heavily at 8 years old?!

Noddy, I know I?m obsessive about this. I?m sleeping, eating and breathing alcohol, everything but drinking it. It?s interesting that your DP didn?t know how non-alcoholics controlled their drinking ? I don?t know either. During my childhood we never kept alcohol at home. My dad would buy 4 Super Tennents each evening and drink them. Sometimes he would go and buy another 4. We never had bottles of wine or spirits at home because, I suppose, my dad would have drunk them. I was talking to someone about drinking rules recently, and how I didn?t feel that they were indicative of alcoholism and that everyone that drinks, no matter how occasionally, has them. I was saying that everyone who wouldn?t have a beer at 9am has a drinking rule and it was pointed out to me that it?s not a rule as such, it?s more like thinking ?Eh??? Of course I don?t want a beer at 9am. Who would?? I?d never realised that before and thought that everyone was struggling to refuse alcohol all of the time. I could quite easily have a drink at any time of the day. I?ve only not become a morning drinker because it?s a rule.

IF, your FIL?s death sounds truly awful. I?m really sorry to hear that. It must be really difficult with your friend keeping on trying to off-load her drink onto you. Does she know that you had a dependent period?

Hi hellobello. Sorry if the conversation has made you worry. I wouldn?t have wanted to talk about this at all when I was still drinking, and I think it?s only come up because of the Dispatches programme. It?s not my primary reason for stopping ? the primary reason is to have some sort of life again (well, a real one anyway). I know what you mean about fear and loneliness. I don?t know what I?m more scared of ? having another drink or not having another drink. I hope you?re ok tonight.

brassic non alcoholics don't control their drinking It is a natural in built thing because we aren't alcoholics.He says he remembers seeing me pour a second glass of wine once and then throw it down the sink as I didn't want it.That was completely incomprehensible to him.

So, how do you do that then Noddy? I hope I'm not pestering. I'm just genuinely interested. If wine is nice and you like it, why wouldn't you want to sit and drink it all day?

What I mean is, do you just like the taste and the associated feelings are a bonus? Is it like how I enjoy eating chips, but I wouldn't want to eat them all day? This is bizarre to me.

Because when I've had enough I've had enough.I don't think you can get it (not being rude xx)because you are an addict and alcohol is your thing.One drink is too many and 10 isn't enough says dp.Sometimes I have a few drinks but don't have set allowances or rules.I often go out and drink nothing or sometimes get drunk but rarely would predict this.Alcohol is like anything else to me take it or leave it.I love wine but I don't crave it

Chips analogy is good.I like the taste and the feeling is fun sometimes and sometimes I don't want that feeling at all because i just like feeling as I am and being drunk doesn't make me 'more' anything like confident happy etc.

Do you have the AA book?The blue one is brill I sat up and read it one night without going to sleep as I just had to get what dp was going through.It is full of anecdotes and stories from alcoholics and I'm sure it would help you.Alcohol is something you are powerless over Like me and all my health problems I have to manage them but I will never be like other people or have a normal life where health is concerned but I still have a great life just different.HTH

Hmm, that's getting really close to the bone. I don't like who I am and that's one of the reasons why I took drinking to stupid levels.

It's so odd. You'd think that heavy drinkers would know more about alcohol than moderate drinkers, but it's the opposite. It's like a secret code that I don't understand. I know it's something I just have to accept though, because I'll never really understand it. Talking about it makes me feel better though.

It does help Noddy. Is it the Big Book? I was looking on their webshop recently but there are so many publications and I didn't want to overload myself.

It is close to the bone but thats what it takes ime.Apparently in AA they say it is the only disease that tells you you don't have it.I think that makes sense.You are in the midst of big changes though so is hard to see the wood for the trees.You have done brilliantly with the reduction method and now you need to tackle the rest as that is what will give you peace.My brother was a heroin addict and has been clean for 8 yrs but he has never gone to NA or anything like it and although he doesn't use the drug anymore he is still riddles with teh same insecurities and feelings so is in effect a 'dry drunk'.I really think you can do this I was sceptical about AA to start with but you can't knock it when you see results.

It is the Big Book I can send you a copy if you like We have one somewhere Let me know.