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Why would you not vaccinate?

295 replies

lizzlebizzle33 · 21/01/2018 10:31

Has anybody decided against vaccinations for their children? If so what were your reasons?

OP posts:
Jeanvaljean27 · 10/02/2018 12:21

This thread is beyond hilarious. How I'd love to return these pig-ignorant, intellectually-challenged anti-vaxxers to the days of smallpox epidemics where they'd have an opportunity to test first hand the risk-benefit profiles of vaccination.

Fortunately for you lot, plenty of parents are sensible enough to vaccinate so keep the herd immunity at a level where your little darling will never be exposed to measles or tetanus. Be thankful for that.

Jeanvaljean27 · 10/02/2018 12:23

*pertussis, not tetanus

Fintress · 10/02/2018 12:23

There is a lot of research into onset of RA postpartum showing that it, while not common, can be a factor. There is no history of it in my family. Due to the severity of my onset a few days after giving birth I was basically a guinea pig for a lot of research which I willingly took part. I still do if asked. I recently signed a form authorising the 'left over' blood from my regular blood tests to be used for research.

Mamabear4180 · 10/02/2018 12:25

Vaccination debates end up with someone always saying if parents don't vaccinate they're idiots so it's probably the wrong place to get unbiased opinions and advice OP.

bruffin · 10/02/2018 12:30

Sorry above meant Jodie Marchant not Jodie Walker

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 11/02/2018 06:55

The difference between these polarised opinions is that anti-vaxxers are less trusting of the research behind vaccinations and of the companies producing them than pro-Vaxxers.

You willl never agree so your debate is pointless.

I do vaccinate my kids to an extent but it really troubles me as I think the research behind the vaccines and the current schedule is utterly woeful. There aren’t really proper control groups now in order to observe cumulative affects of a vaccine or the subtle effects on the immune system. Side effects are not reported properly and vaccine damage is usually dismissed.

To call anti-vaxxers “pig ignorant” is laughable as they are usually incredibly bright people who have suspicious minds. I am amazed at the utter blind faith people put in their GP and the studies behind vaccines.

At the risk of repeating myself, why are children sicker than ever with autoimmune disease, cancers and allergies? The research into this is alarmingly small and yet this is a HUGE issue. My own child’s eczema started after her first set of vaccinations but if course it’s a coincidence.

MyOtherProfile · 11/02/2018 07:20

Are children sicker? Not in my experience.
As a child at various times I was ill with whopping cough, flu, mumps, measles and rubella. All were miserable. V happy that my children were vaxxed and the worse they've had is the odd cold.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 11/02/2018 07:22

Sicker in terms of rates of cancers, autoimmune conditions (such as type 1 diabetes) and allergies, especiallly food allergies

I have no idea if rates of colds are more prevalent and i suspect it’s not been studied

bruffin · 11/02/2018 07:43

calledyouladtnight
Some posted your points above, they are baseless and i linked to the research on the schedule.
Most of the diseases we vaccinate can leave autoimmune problems ie mumps and other viruses trigger Diabetes type 1. Rubella RA and measles suppresses the immune system for upto 3 years.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 11/02/2018 07:49

So what? Why are autoimmune diseases rising in kids then if we are vaccinating diseases that also cause them?

bruffin · 11/02/2018 07:52

Do you have any evidence that they are rising. ?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 11/02/2018 08:04

There is plenty. That is well known and - here’s the thing - no one knows why. Hmmmm.

I’m not going to sit here and post dozens of links. Have a look yourself!

lizzlebizzle33 · 11/02/2018 08:13

Thank you to all your responses to this, it has given me a lot to look at.

If we could though please go back to the original question which was "if you chose not to vaccinate, what were your reasons?"

It's become the usual pro vaxx vs anti vaxx argument which wasn't my intent.

Thanks

OP posts:
bruffin · 11/02/2018 08:22

Lizziebizzie
Yoi said you wanted to know where to get accurate information. I provided links to well regarded websites above and the report from the IOM on events and causality

Wellthen · 11/02/2018 08:31

There are more children in hospital with diagnosed cancers and diseases because those children aren’t dead.

HTH

lizzlebizzle33 · 11/02/2018 08:32

Thank you @bruffin, and I have watched the Ewan mcgreggor one.

OP posts:
Dermymc · 11/02/2018 08:44

This thread is like the twighlight zone.

Wtaf that vaccinations cause SIDS? That is a total lie and you know it. If that was the case, then why did my great uncle (pre vaccinations) die from SIDS?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 11/02/2018 08:47

wellthen so you honestly believe that?!

I should add that I do not know if vaccines are partly behind (or indeed fully behind) these increases. There are huge environmental factors too. But the fact remains that no one knows!

Wellthen · 11/02/2018 08:53

Do I believe that we are better at diagnosing than in the past? Um yes. In the same way that dementia etc are more common because people are living longer. Previously children with cancer would not have been treated they would have gradually deteriorated and died.

The vaccination issue has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Ledehe · 11/02/2018 09:03

@Wellthen is completely correct. There is more children with allergies, autoimmune conditions and childhood cancers because we can TREAT them. Years ago when you speak of being so great they would have just died

BertrandRussell · 11/02/2018 09:06

When I was a child there were plenty of babies that “failed to thrive”

“Summer colds” covered a multitude of allergies. “Weak chest” = asthma.

Ylvamoon · 11/02/2018 09:09

OP I think if you want hard facts for / against vaccinations, you need to look at statistics of said illnesses in countries where there is no vaccination programme v countries with vaccination programme. Or past v present. Try WHO - they are pretty good...

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 11/02/2018 09:17

I agree with pretty much everything called said, and am also a cautious vaxxer. I’m a scientist with a lot of immunology experience and I actually agree that the long term effects of the current schedule are not adequately tested, and cannot be because of the universal nature of vaccine programs. It is something that worries me, and so I vaccinate my children on an extended schedule which I strongly believe to be safer (note that my children are then fully covered).

It’s well accepted that autoimmune disease rates have increased significantly in recent decades, and there is a huge literature on the subject. Similarly allergies are increasing at an alarming rate. While one or two researchers cautiously put their heads above the parapet occasionally to implicate the vaccine schedule this doesn’t seem to be something that most are considering (not in public anyway). However, it is scientifically plausible as alum-adjuvanted vaccines stimulate the immune system in a lopsided way, skewing it towards the Th2 arm, which is associated with allergies etc. Of course, there are probably multiple factors involved in the rise of allergies and autoimmune disease, but I suspect the more and more vaccine adjuvants given to young babies should probably be on the list.

Recently a few papers have also suggested that aluminium in adjuvants could cause longer term neurological effects which is worrying (see below for an example), and Researchers are even starting to suggest publicly that non-alum based adjuvants should be sought.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26948677

For balance, I also think there is a risk in not vaccinating, and overall prefer to vaccinate (for most of the vaccines) in the safest way possible. It’s a lot more complicated than ‘stick to the schedule or you’re an idiot’ though (and I agree that in my experience it’s more educated people who question the schedule, with these people almost always deciding to vaccinate to some extent.)

bruffin · 11/02/2018 10:01

DSurely if alumium caused a s8gificant effect there would be actimeline in each country showing a connection between introduction of a vaccine and increase these AI diseases, especially as vaccines are introduced at different times in different countries.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 11/02/2018 11:07

bruffin I’m not aware that anyone has published an answer to that specific question, but there is certainly a documented link between aluminium adjuvants and autoimmune disease in susceptible individuals. Some reviews on the topic are below (there’s more out there than I remember so maybe this is a field that’s gaining traction). It seems that the alum can persist in tissues for months or even years in some cases, although I’m not sure a large study has been done on this, or how this relates to genetic susceptibility to the various conditions. The general message from the literature seems to be that more research is urgently needed.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20882368
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27417999
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19880572

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