Why would you not vaccinate?

[lizzlebizzle33]

Has anybody decided against vaccinations for their children? If so what were your reasons?

I thought the mmf connection was largely dismissed because of lack of control.

That’s not my area bruffin, I just posted a variety of papers suggesting that the link between aluminium adjuvants and autoimmune disease is gaining traction (there are several on pubmed covering other diseases like type I diabetes if you’re interested). Individual studies will always have weaknesses, but the overall picture is that this is something worth being concerned about. The problem of course is that there aren’t any proven alternatives to aluminium in vaccines, and the vaccines don’t work without them, so I doubt the official advice will be changing until the link is rock solid.

Those who have chosen not to vaccinate your children, are you constantly on edge when they are around other kids? Or do you trust your research so far that it doesn't bother you?

@BertrandRussell and others: the only idiots are those who think they can change minds through insults.

{Oops.}

I din’t Expect to be able to change their minds. They have “done their research” after all.

Coming back to this late but I find those of you who state the increase in allergies is due to the fact they are diagnosed better laughable.

Anyone know anyone allergic to peanuts in the 80s?!

Type 1 diabetes - you either have it, and are diagnosed and treated or die, or you don’t. And we have had treatment for type 1 diabetes for decades now.

Sadly, cases of most types of childhood cancers are indeed increasing. (Adult cancers too).

youcannot I have seen your posts before and spent some time trying to understand the studies and the subtler effects on the immune system. I wish to god there could be more research here, particularly re allergies and whether it’s reversible. As you say, no one dare speak against the current vaccination schedule lest they are struck off

Anyone know anyone allergic to peanuts in the 80s?!

Yes. They died, because they weren't treated fast enough.

If you want to dispute that childhood allergies are rising as a defence to concerns over vaccinations then you are on your own and good luck to you 🙈

Peanuts were relatively rare in my childhood - peanut butter was a strange American invention and not widely available, and things like peanut oil weren't used in what processed food there was (pre-prepared foods much less common). The child I knew died from a 'special treat' of peanuts at a party.

I agree that childhood allergies are much more commonly reported now - but equally, children are much less often 'invalids' or 'frail' or 'sickly' and don't get 'summer colds'. I was simply known as a 'sickly child' - good treatments for eczema, asthma and pollen allergies (hayfever) were less common. I don't think that the greater diagnosis, or even the greater frequency, of allergies can be linked to vaccination specifically? There are lots of medical, lifestyle and food reasons whichcould be contributing to it, without blaming vaccinations?

Were those who received TB vaccinations from 1908 more prey to allergies than those who predated them?

If you want to dispute that childhood allergies are rising as a defence to concerns over vaccinations

I realise that I may have completely misunderstood your point.

Are you saying that you think vaccines have contributed to the rise in allergies? (I would dispute that there is a direct causal link, certainly)

Or are you saying that you think I am disputing the rise in allergies, and think I am therefore poo-pooing the concerns of those who are anti-vaccination? (No, I regard the two as separate topics. I simply replied to your single point about peanut allergies, based on my own personal experience, which tbf I think must have been mid-late 1970s rather than 1980s)

Yes, exactly, fighting over whether allergies/cancer/autoimmunity is increasing is missing the point.

And my point is no one really knows why these conditions are much more prevalent now (and rising still).

I’m not saying that vaccinations are dire rly behind the rise. But I have real concerns about the current vaccination schedule and wouldn’t be surprised if it was implicated in some of it but hell will freeze over before we get some proper research.

Like a PP I have tried to space the vaccinations my children receive out a bit and they are vaccinated but it’s something that bothers me greatly.

antkeepawayforever

Anyone know anyone allergic to peanuts in the 80s?!

My DH was born in 1961 has nut allergy as does my DS born in 95.
Both dh and i have lots of allergies, poor ds seems to have got the short straw in our genetics. He got the gefs+, allergies, dyslexia from dh. Dd has none of these problems.

Interesting dyslexia was not well known when dh was learning to read in the 60s,
gefs + not discovered until this century, even though my DGM born in 1912 had it.
All these conditions existed but were just not diagnosable

All these conditions existed but were just not diagnosable

Exactly. Unlike my DGF's polio, which was diagnosable but untreatable in the early 1900s, and which none of us, or our children, will ever fear.

“hell will freeze over before we get some proper research.”

There’s loads of research!

"why are children sicker than ever with autoimmune disease, cancers and allergies?"

Becasue they're not dying of infectious diseases, basically.

I think that some people think there was a golden era where every child survived to adulthood never getting ill. In the UK in 1950 3.5% of children didnt make it to their 5th birthday, in 2015 the figure has gone down to 0.45%.

Spot on rose and bruffin

Where do you live OP?

Because you are even asking I'm guessing you're not in somewhere in Africa for example. Where there's not always vaccination as standard and not herd immunity to diseases that we have protection from.

You'd be mown down in the rush to get your DC vaccinated there.

I always wonder if anti vaccs types just never travel.

I am old enough-just- to remember my mother worrying about polio.in fact the first bit of fake news I remember is the rumour that the National Health orange juice that was issued to families with under 5s was infected with polio.......

There was a "polio season"- I can't remember when it was. It coincided with some sort of local gathering-can't remember what that was either- but there were lots of parents who wouldn't let their children go. Imagine how people feel nowadays about the possibility of their child catching a vomiting bug at a party but with the very real risk of ending up paralysed.

Anyone know anyone allergic to peanuts in the 80s?!

Unfortunately yes. Colleague's brother died of anaphylactic shock. I also worked with someone with a severe allergy to eggs. One of daughters also developed it. All in the 80's.

Yep.

I also knew of kids in the 60s and 70s who died of sudden fits.

And children “choked” on peanuts.

I think being cautious, doing research (if you actually KNOW how to read medical research. I honestly believe this needs to be part of your qualification/job to do this properly) spacing vaccinations, weighing up risks is all very sensible.

Blind following of rules or advice is generally not sensible and you only need to read a handful of threads on here to see that guidelines are misused, misunderstood and parroted long after they become irrelevant.

However, what bugs me on threads like this is stuff like:
It’s a pharma scam to make money - except the nhs is constantly looking for ways to cut costs. The reason chicken pox isn’t in the schedule is because it isn’t financially viable/beneficial
Drs have no idea and tell lies - is this really that likely? How many gps are there vs how many actively harm their paitients. It happens but it’s not COMMON.
trotting out stuff that has been discredited - the stuff about autism was LIES. You still be anti vax and admit that he was a nut job
Refusal to listen to reason - vaccines kill people - well yes but so do diseases,

I think you can be anti vax for genuine reasons. I think you can agree that generally vaccines are good but still be doubtful. I don’t see the need to try and completely discredit vaccines or link them to other random things.

Autism this is one of the side effects. - @Iwka

Please explain how my friend's 3 children and dh all have autism, yet not one of them has been vaccinated...