Post-natal Depression

[dmozzo]

Help!!!!
My wife had her fourth child back in January.
Her children's age ranges are 19,15,10 and 7 months.We both recently came to the conclusion that she is suffering from post natel depression due to the way she is reacting to things and how she cries over absoutely nothing at all.
Please has anyone got any natural remedy suggestions for her to try as she doesn't want to start on tranques,
I look forward to anyone's suggestions,thanks.

Hi Dmozzo. I think your wife's best port of call would be her GP and/or health visitor. They will be able to discuss her options with her and maybe able to refer her on to a counsellor or alternative therapies if she is keen not to take tranquillisors. It may also be worth contacting the Depression Alliance on 020 7633 0557 for advice and information.

Dmozzo, I don't know much about natural remedies for PND, apart from trying things such as homeopathy, although I'm sure someone on Mumsnet will be able to supply the info you want. But I'd just like to say that it's highly unlikely any doctor would give your wife tranquillisers for PND. Things have moved on a lot in the treatment of PND, thank goodness, and there are antidepressants that are safe to use while breastfeeding and are non-addictive. Hope your wife feels better very soon.

Dmozzo

What's with the "HER fourth child..." and "HER children's age ranges..."?

If you're not their biological father then I apologise, but otherwise, it seems a funny way of referring to them.

I hope your wife can find some suitable help and support soon so she can start to make a recovery.

Dmozzo - really think your wife needs to go and have a chat to your GP. Maybe just a referral to a counsellor or suchlike, so your wife can talk about everything - sometimes this helps.
The main thing is she begins to seek help - having recognised the problem she is already on the road to recovery - and sounds like she has your support.
The GP may well suggest anti depressants, but these are not the same as tranquilizers as SueDonim pointed out - would be very unusual for a GP to prescribe tranquilizers. If the GP felt they would be beneficial maybe she could just try a short course to see if they helped. Rhubarb would be good at answering this question - Rhubarb, are you out there?.....

Hi dmozzo, just had a look for Rhubarb's excellent site and it's here maybe you could have a look at that? There is some helpful information about depression here. I agree with the others: your wife should go and see her GP. Mine was great and suggested St. Johns Wort which is a homeopathic anti depressant and worked for me but you should see what your GP recommends. Good luck.

Thanks www! There are alternative remedies for PND and I think I have a link to some useful websites on my site. However the best thing to do is for her to talk it over with her doctor. I took a course of progesterone which really helped my moods, but this is not suitable for everyone. Her GP will know through her medical records, the best course of treatment for your wife. Do be careful if you go to anyone who is not medically qualified as some treatments can make the depression worse.

I think it took me well over a year after the birth of my son (in fact when I found out I was pregnant again) that I realised something was really wrong.

We moved 5 times within this first yr - the first time to Manchester where I had no support at all. My son was 6 weeks old.

I think I never dealt with what I knew was a problem until earlier this yr when I eventually told my m/wife that I wasn't coping. I saw a community psyciatric nurse for a few weeks & she did try to push some sort of drugs I think but I resisted - I don't really know why.

Just talking to her & coming to terms with the new pregnancy has helped. I still have black days and am dreading a return of all those emotions & feelings after this next baby (due anytime).

All the advice I can give is - don't ignore it or hide it if you can & an outsider does help somehow. Best of luck.

There's an article in today's paper about PND here which also has links to sites such as NCT and the Association for Postnatal Illness. HTH.

Bach's flower are natural remedy. You really should get advice from a homeopath on which mixtures would suit you best. But one that I've been advised is safe to use is the Rescue Remedy, which I found helps me. There are other remedies such as St John Wort but again you should really check the suitability of these rememdies because at the end of the day they can have an affect on you like any other chemicals or food stuffs.

Hi, I just wanted to leave a message for nice glasses. I was diagnosed with PND with my first child who is now 2 1/2. My second child is now 16 weeks. For me (and I know everyone is different) my pnd is not as bad because I am still on anti d's. My back moods are nowhere near as black and I seem to be coping better although no end is in sight quite yet. Good luck and keep you chin up!

I've been wanting to post about this for a while and think this is probably the best place. I can't stop crying about dd. I love her so much, I'm terrified that something might happen and I'll lose her. When I play with her I get this sick feeling inside, like I'm really scared. I feel so horrible because as recent tragic posts here show these things really do happen and I can't help thinking that I'm being self-indugent. I wish that I could just get on with enjoying my beautiful little one. When she's asleep in my arms I cry. I still cry about not b/f too. I just wish that I could pull myself together, I really feel quite pathetic when I think of the real tragedies that have happened to some people, and I want to apologise if this post offends anyone.

Message withdrawn

Hi Ionesmum. Please, please see your health visitor or your GP about this. And have you been able to talk to your husband? As I think you've realised, these sorts of feelings can be absolutely classic signs of PND. As can this sort of worrying that your problems are much less valid than anyone else's. I know there have been some really awful, sobering things happening to mumsnetters recently but if you have PND or if you are just feeling low - that is real too and it needs treatment and/or acknowledgement just as much as anything else. I am certain that absolutely no one will have been offended by your post- just sympathetic and rooting for you to feel better. A big cyber hug to you and please do try and find some help. You deserve it.

I've had PND and I'd like to echo Scummymummy's advice to see someone about your feelings, Ionesmum. Don't beat yourself up about it, don't feel guilty, but do go and ring the doctor/HV right now. If you think you might find it hard to talk to them without going all teary, then write down a brief outline of how you feel and hand that over. Best wishes and do let us know how you get on.

ionesmum, can I encourage you to go and see someone abou this too. I'm on my second dose of PND, and it is so easy to treat, if you go and get help. I took antidepressants for a year after dd was born, and am still on them now with ds 7 months old. But it is worth it in order to enjoy my children. I know what you mean about just sitting crying over them - I've doen that many a time.
There's no point being sad when something can be done to allow you to enjoy being with your lovely daughter. Please go and talk to someone about it. I'll be thinking of you.

This may be a long one - sorry. I'd like to say what happened to me when I had PND and what I found was the thing that made me get better.
I had PND after DS and was on Antidepressants for 14 months. I sympathise with everyone on this thread as it is a truly awful illness to have. One of the most difficult things for me was my relationships with those closest to me: first of all, my DS, who I did not bond with AT ALL - I felt that he was not the baby that I grew in my tummy and that there had been an awful mistake and that someone had given me someone else's baby to look after (I still have enormous guilt feelings about that!); then there was my DH, who I resented because he loved the baby immediately and I was jealous. I also couldn't understand why he was always smiling when to me everything was a total disaster. I also hated the fact that his life seemed to remain the same and mine had changed so dramatically.
Then there were my parents and my sister and just about all of my friendships suffered as I could no longer relate to my closest friends - especially those who didn't have children yet. I felt that I was an empty shell of my former self and social occasions were sheer hell.
Nightmare.
Antidepressants helped me as I was able to cope when I was on them, but they did not cure me. I think the thing that made me better was counselling. My doctor arranged for me to have 8 sessions on the NHS and I will be forever thankful for that.
My counsellor was wonderful - she let me talk, she let me cry, she let me pace up and down and wail! She listened and gave good advice and helped me come to terms with what had happened to me (50 hour labour, emergency c-section, baby with Pyloric Stenosis followed by a meningitis scare) and helped me find ways to make me believe in myself again as a person and to stop thinking the world hated me.
I know that with counselling you have to find a counsellor that you get on with and I was lucky that my counsellor was so great but I really think that she 'saved' me - or at least gave me the tools to save myself.
One of the best things about counselling was that I was able to talk about me without feeling guilty, to someone who was there to listen, without saying ,"Anyway, enough about me, how are things with you?" Selfish, I know but very valuable. Also talking to someone who didn't know the 'old' me was useful because she had no comparisons to make and made me see that it was ok for the 'old' me to have changed.
I wish I knew that MUMSNET existed then! I mentioned in another thread about my worries in having a second baby and from everyone's helpful comments and suggestions and general support I feel so much calmer about having No 2 now - Thanks guys.
I believe that although I had such a bad time I am now a stronger person for it and although I will always bear the emotional scars of it, I know now that I have a wonderful DS, DH and family and I wouldn't change that for anything. If it were a choice between PND or no DS I would choose PND!
Again sorry for going on but I just wanted to ... well ... you know ...

Really really sorry for the very long post - I wrote it and realised that it was far too long and boring so I was in the process of editing and hit post message, not preview message!

I only wanted to say that counselling helped me get better from PND!

Sorry!

ionesmum, you may not need anti-d's (although I echo everyone's advice to go and see your gp), you sound absolutely exhausted, I think you need a bit of break. IMO, counselling would be of more help with the bfeeding issue - this is something that you really need to sort out in your own head. It can be normal to feel so horribly vulnerable after you have had a baby. I used to have this terrible thought that if I turned away for a second while dd was in the bath (even when I was holding her) when I looked back she would have drowned. I think I may have had mild PND after her birth but that was a lot to do with feeling very isolated (I had just moved to the middle of the countryside and couldn't drive) and dd's birth being very traumatic.

I spoke to my HV and just cried all over her, it really really helped. I also went to see my GP (after a miscarriage) and he recommended counselling - I didn't have it in the end as I felt better but I was very relieved that he didn't immmediately say 'You need anti-d's' as I really didnt want to take them.

I think a lot of love, support and talking can get you through this scary time, ionesmum and please try and lay the ghost of the breastfeeding, you are obviously a very kind and loving mum and thats the best that you can do for your daughter.

Ionesmum - why would you think your post would offend anyone - you shouldn't have waited so long to post. I think every mother has anxieties to some degree or another, myself included. I OFTEN catch myself thinking - "what if........" followed by some terrible tragedy involving dd. If I feel a bit low (ie pre-menstrual) I have these feelings far more often, and they can occasionally make me feel a bit panicky. However, I recognise them for what they are, and I tell myself to get a grip and move on. Not at all suggesting this is your course of action Ionesmum, as you seem to be suffering on s different level, but just trying to say that you are far from unusual. Counselling would probably help, as others have suggested - just talking to someone before you let your imagination get the better of you - don't bottle it all up waiting for it to explode.
I can honestly sympathise with you, and really hope you get the help and listening ear you need.

ionesmum, I had pnd too and used to sit there crying because I was convinced my own death was imminent and would leave ds with no mum. Morbid thoughts are classic symptoms, please do do something about it. Being able to recognise that your feelings are not 'normal' is a good first step so I hope you can take the second one, which is getting some help. It doesn't have to be this way! I was given St Johns Wort by my GP and it helped. Also had reflexology which helped because of the conversations that went with it, so it was counselling really. You're not alone and no-one is the least bit offended by your posting. Good luck.

Ghosty, don't apologise, your posting was eloquent and helpful. Mooma x

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply, it's really helped. I woke up this morning feeling really ashamed of myself so I really appreciate such understanding replies.

I think that tiredness has a lot to do with things, I manage to cope with my bad feelings so much better when I don't feel so shattered. Dd is in a routine (of her choosing) and I can't deviate from it or she gets upset, so I don't have many opportunities to go out. Dh and I don't have any support so there's no-one who can give us a break. Dh is understanding in a blokish way; he's come up with practical solutions so that I don't have to spend so much time in the kitchen and does most of the housework, but I know he finds the concept of me having depression difficult and says that he thinks I'm okay whenever I mention it (which has only been on two occasions).

I don't really feel comfortable with counselling as I don't like crying in front of strangers, I only feel comfortable crying with dh, which is probably very wet of me. I will talk all this over with dh when he comes home and decide what to do. The St.John's Wort might be an idea.

The person that I feel sorry for is dd, she's so fabulous, I really don't feel like I deserve to be her mummy esp. when I'm dying for a moment to myself, it seems so selfish.

Thank you so much for all your kindness and support. I can't tell you how much it means to me. I'll let you know how I get on. xx

Ionesmum & Ghosty - DO NOT apologise for posting about your problems - that's what Mumsnet's here for. I too went to a counsellor when I was depressed, and as Ghosty says, it's helpful because you don't have to follow social norms of "conversation". I sympathise with having to cope with your husband's attitude - my counsellor explained that when there's a problem, men want to "do something" about the problem, and if you don't want to follow their practical solutions, they get very frustrated. Whereas women want someone to listen to their problems/feelings and just sympathise. Me and my dh definitely conformed to this model. It was probably quite scary for him to witness my failure to cope as well, especially as I'm usually the more practical and organised one.

There have been some very sad things on Mumsnet recently, and you're obviously just highly empathetic! It's great to give & receive sympathy from other Mumsnetters, but it seems that it does lead to a certain "loss of innocence" for hundreds of people. Not that I'm suggesting you harden your heart in any way though. Just realised that there's not much constructive advice here, just sympathy, but I hope you manage to speak to someone soon who can really help you. Rx

Ionesmum - I'm SO sorry that I made my comment about you being a bit of a worrier in another thread! I meant it kindly, and to tell you that I am exactly the same.

You sound like you go through all the same worries as me about child raising, and all the same fears about safety for you and your child. You are just a few months behind me. Every post you make, I say 'I went through that too', which is why I often respond to your postings. I hope that my flippant reply did not add to your feelings of self doubt, as I would feel even more thoughtless than I do now.

Everything the others have said is true, and you must go and see your GP. I am lucky that my previous depressions did not return as PND, however, I have felt very near to it at times, as you may see from some of my postings. I totally empathise with you about feeling stuck in the house because of your dd's routine, and needing some time to yourself. I have been there. It is important that you make time to get out of the house as much as possible, even if it is only for a walk in the fresh air. Your dd will not mind having a sleep in her pushchair. Also, meet friends in town etc. Having a coffee in town with friends and/or family is a special treat for me (supplemented by a piece of cake of course!) Your dd will love being out and looking at all the people and lights etc.

Also, could your dh have dd for an evening, so you can have a girly night? I go out with my sister once every 2 or 3 weeks for a meal and a night in the pub singing Karaoke (I know, I know, but it's fun!), and I always come home feeling better and ready to face another day.

My worst moments are because I don't have many friends to see, so I often find myself in town on my own, or walking manically to Tesco, just to get out of the house. It is hard to make yourself do something each day, but I can assure you that your dd will like it, as it will give her something stimulating to look at.

Good luck, and keep us posted on how you are doing. I can't say how sorry I am if I ever came across as a bit hard in other threads - I just wanted to assure you that you were doing everything well, and not to worry. I could have done with knowing about this site when I was at your stage.