Post-natal Depression

[dmozzo]

Help!!!!
My wife had her fourth child back in January.
Her children's age ranges are 19,15,10 and 7 months.We both recently came to the conclusion that she is suffering from post natel depression due to the way she is reacting to things and how she cries over absoutely nothing at all.
Please has anyone got any natural remedy suggestions for her to try as she doesn't want to start on tranques,
I look forward to anyone's suggestions,thanks.

Hi, Girly, thanks for your post. Dd had loads of blood tests, in the end her little hands were so bruised they moved on to her feet. She's made an amazing recovery, I've just posted on teh 'proud' thread that she crawled for the first time today!!! I never ever thought I could love anyone like I love my dd, it's quite scarey.

sounds familiar to me. My daughter is six months now, but when she was about 8 weeks, till 4months I cried every night at tea and felt quite trippy even hallucinating most evenings in bed. Think of the tiredness for a start, then never really relaxing, cause of all the different worrys about the new baby, all kinds of anxietys. If we all still lived in extended families it would be so much easier. I think it's quite unnatural really that mothers have so much to cope with on their own. We feel guilty that we're not coping well enough, when really we're all coping the best we can with relatively little help. I'm quite sure we were never meant to live like this.....

HI again,
Again many thanks for your kind words. I will give a shortened version of "my story" if only to get some words of wisdom from those of you here, and to perhaps reassure me that I am not loosing the plot!
In the last year, on now just a little over, I had managed to get my ideal job in an ideal location, (having worked hard to get it!)in a serious relationship where we had discussed marriage, then the bombshell of an unexpected pregnancy,severe drop in self esteem, morale etc, (being from a catholic family etc etc. and being old enough to know better etc etc. followed by a wedding, a honeymoon,a new baby, (an adorable little boy, now just 5 months old)struggled with breast feeding, a sick baby,(the aforementioned adorable one!) who needed surgery at 4 weeks old, but who has recovered.
I do not feel that I can return to my "ideal job" due to pressures of family life now, but will return to one similiar to one I did before the pregnancy, my husband (as he is now) is a wonderful man, who is not and has not been interested in the physical side of our relationship in over 10 months now, in fact it is beginning to feel like I signed a vow of celebacy when I got married instead of maybe breaking it after marriage as I "should have" been doing!! this is actually causing me great anxiety, I thought I would be the one going off things, but no, just another little smack in the teeth for yours truely!!
I return to work soon, reducing my hours but working longer days the days I will be there,and I have started doing a course to activate the brain cells... I manage the house (as most women do) the cooking, cleaning ironing etc etc etc.In fact, my dh seems to forget that bills need paying, and considering that I am on unpaid leave at the moment (my choice)I have to question what he thinks we are living on, and in fact how food gets onto the table?? maybe darby and the little people are at work in our house?? and often wonder what I have really let myself into?? I was a free thinking fiercely independant woman this time last year,with my own house? Now I feel like I am slightly trapped,not strangely, by the baby particularly,but almost by my husband who was/is as independant as I was, continues to excercise his right to carry on almost but not quite, as a batchlor??
Oh, I could go on about that but judging from other threads I have read I would be speaking to the converted. Men do not see things needing to be done in the same way as women seem to?
I asked my DH if in fact he liked being married? I mean I knew what the answer would be?? Of course he does/ why would he not? everything is done for him, not just for his sake but for the sake of my sanity?
Ok, so there you have it, I am feeling a bit low, and just a little alone, I do not think that I am depressed, at least not now having vented it all here,! do you know what? I actually feel way better already, I hope you are not asleep out there having had to read it??
PS I just adore my little boy, and planned or not, he is the very very best thing to have come out of the past year! they say things happen for a reason??
oops, this does not really seem like a shortened version!! Sorry about that, really..it is the abridged version!!

mcm, I do know something of what you feel, my dd wasn't planned and she came just as I'd decided after a long process to go forward for ministry training. I'm lucky with dh in that he's turned into a domestic god but he still goes out to the pub and plays his sport whereas I struggle even to make an afternoon with friends. I adore my baby and wouldn't change anything, but sometimes the monotony - yesterday was the same as today which will be the same as tomorrow - can be numbing. I'm a SAHM which is my choice and I think this has made things easier for me rather than harder.

It's undeniable that our relationships with others esp. our spouses change radically. I'm reading 'The Sixty Minute Marriage' by Rob Parsons atm, and so far it's really good - however the challenge is getting dh to read it too!

Girly, I meant to say what a relief for you that it wasn't meningitis, that must have been terrible.

music, I do agree about the lack of support we can get. I'm really surprised by how little my mum understands, I've tried explaining my feelings but all she says is that it's part of being a mum. Well, maybe, but it'd be nice to talk to her about it.

I think I jinxed myself when I said on my previous post that there are not too many bad days, just had the most embarrasing/awful morning, had to drop dd off to playgroup, parked the car etc, got back (ds in buggy) loaded up and then tried to turn the car arounf in the Health clininc car park, then my gears decide to pack up just as i tried to get in reverse, so there i am blocking the entrance/exit, rining the AA when a really HELPFUL Health Visitor comes and and tells me off for parking in their car park, I calmly explained that the car had broken down when she butted in saying that was not any good to her she had appointments to get to, so what do I do, CRY, yep in front of everybody, just wanted the ground to open up and swallow me...Luckily some nice men who were watching came and offered a push and sorted it out in a jiffy. I did not like that HV, but now I hate her, afterwards she had the cheek to enquire after ds, pointing out that he was a nice big boy and I shoud'nt let him get too fat Oooohhhh.. Car is now in garage and is going to cost a fortune so all in all a great morning, can't wait to see what this afternoon is going to be like. What a rant Sorry.
Ionesmum how is your day?

I just wanted to have a moan. I am on my second lot of PND and have been doing fairly well up to now, taking my tablets and staying fairly symptom free.
I reduced my dose last week with the agreememnt of my doc but today I have felt the need to put it up again - I'm getting that fearful panicky way, feeling like I cant cope with life and kids and house and all. Its been coming on over the last few days but this morning when I still wasntdresed at noon then my neighbour came in and I just crahed on her and cried and cried.
So (she is lovely) she has taken the kids to the park and back to her house (they love it there) and is bringing them back at 5. She ran me a bath, tidied the kitchen while I was in it (with my children running round her feet) then they were off! I know she is a frustrated granny (her grandaughter lives 500 miles away) and I am so grateful to her. But I just wanted to moan as I know some of you will know how I feel.

Oh Susan I know just how you feel, its awful is'nt it? Sometime you just want to run away and hide and pretend you're someone else.

Yes Girly. The temptation this morning just to walk out the door and leave them both (though I would never do it) was almost overwhelming. I think if I wasnt also suffering from the constant apin of my kidney stones I would feel much better with my depression too, they kind of feed off each other.

Susan, I agree totally, I fell down the stairs when ds was 2 wks old and fractured my cocsyc and the pain was awful, it still has not healed properly and ds is now 20 wks, it really gets me down sometimes, it also put paid to bf as it was impossible for me to sit down for ages and ds would not feed lying down. I really wanted to bf as I did not even try with dd and felt v guilty about that, (pnd was much worse the first time). So I know exactly where your coming from.

mcm, it's a big shock isn't it? Being independent financially and in other ways and then suddenly feeling responsible for everything. I believe you that your post was the abridged version, 5 months is a long time with a small baby!

I looked and looked for some reassurance that what I was feeling was normal after ds was born (5 years ago) and didn't find much that was useful at the time (if only mumsnet had been around then) except Kate Figes' Life After Birth. I've since lent it to a friend and haven't had it back but I remember at the time that it spoke to me about the shock and change of it all and made me feel less alone somehow. I don't know what I'd think re- reading it now though, but it might be worth a look?

Research consistently shows (and I can't be bothered to look it up so this is a lazy reference here, sorry) that married men are happier than any other group and married women are slightly less happy in general. I'm not surprised, quite frankly, when so many men seem to go from their mothers to their wives with very little change in their domestic arrangements. They are very often cooked for, cleaned for, washed for, looked after, nurtured. Married women and mothers often aren't. (Sorry for going to Sweeping Generalisation City, Arizona here!)

Have you talked to your DH about the sex thing? Is he finding it hard to adjust to a baby and you as a wife and mother rather than girlfriend? Maybe I'm way off here but just a thought. I did have pnd as it turned out but maybe you don't. Maybe you are just going through the same shock that many of us experience? Can you talk honestly, openly and uninterrupted with your DH and tell him how you feel and what you want to change? Let us know how you get on.

Girly what a cow of a HV! You'd have thought she would have helped rather than make unhelpful and spiteful comments. Sorry, that wasn't very helpful was it? I hope tomorrow is better. Susanmt, ditto, hope tomorrow is better for you too, your neighbour sounds lovely.

Girly, what a stinker of an hv!!!

Thank you for asking, I've had a quite a good day, apart from dd refusing to have her nap so I didn't get the housework done that I wanted to. I nearly always feel worse at night when I'm tired and the house is silent.

Well just as I thought my day could not get any worse the garage phoned and said that the gear box has gone on my car and is going to cost a foirtune to fix, bl**dy great.
However its not all doom and gloom dh came home having also had a pig of a day at work, gave me a big kiss and ordered a chinese, put the kids to bet and poured me a large drink! So not all bad then, lets hope today is better, what about everyone else?

HI there,
Thanks again for the kind words and the reassurances. You know thinking about it all maybe I am a little bit down, in fact last night I told my DH that it had taken years, but that I was finally beaten, the spark, and in fact liveliness that I used to feel is a distant memory. I had been in serious relationships before but I think the main difference (excluding the obvious ones of a baby and husband.!!) is that I always felt in control,now I do not. Most people I know would think that (oh, she's fine, she is always fine!) I have always been able to sort things out for everyone else, hence the fact that noone would ever suspect that I feel so out of my depth.
My DH constantly tells me how much he loves me etc. etc. and I know he means it. He moved cities to be with me, not an easy thing to do, and he left behind a lifetime of friends to move 80 miles to where we now live, I grew up here and am near my Mum. He lived with his Dad for years following some time abroad.
I lived overseas too for several years, and considering that I met him at my friends wedding,he is her only brother!!, and then started going out with him literally as I returned home from overseas for good, (2 1/2 years ago now) maybe it is all just catching up with me??
I did speak to a psychologist, and he seemed to think that I was not in fact loosing my mind!, while I was pregnant as I was so distraught about the whole thing so perhaps maybe I should go and chat with him again. If this cloud that is now hanging over me does not lift soon then perhaps I will.
I know I have so much to be thankful for, I have a lovely DH, (I do realise this!) a beautiful baby, a mother who is nearby and has been so great, and who has offered to mind DS when I go back to work, what am I feeling so fed up about?? I really need to cop myself on and get on with enjoying life!
sorry to go on, but there are days when I feel like noone else has ever felt like this and then I log on to mumsnet and feel better, not about peoples problems, but about the fact that lots of women feel like I do?
Thanks again, I think I am getting addicted to Mumsnet!!!
As for chatting to my DH about the sex thing, I am afraid, that as he has been so disinterested for so long, I am feeling, well, why now?? no explanations, and he is making some attempts to get closer to me?? I am still reeling from his lack of interest over the past 10months!!Does this make sense?

www thank you so much for your lovely words and your reassurances.
Ionasmum, it is a huge shock isn't it? This wife mother thing??
Girly? can you not complain about that awful HV??How dare she be so rude and passremarkable!!

Just lately I have been worried that I might be slipping back into depression. I have been VERY tearful of late. As you may have read on another thread, my husband has been working weekends recently, and the other day he told me that he isn't even going to come back in the evening this Saturday and is staying in a hotel. This makes sense as he was just coming home going to bed and going off to work again, but I burst into floods of tears at the thought of all the repsonsibility and not having him to talk to.

Also, my ds has started full time school this week, and although he seems fine, everytime I come home from dropping him off I cry for ages, and I hate not seeing him all day. Kind of ironic as when he is here, we end up winding each other up.

I just feel really fragile and shaky at the moment and I can't tell if I am getting depressed again or if it's just a 'down' phase at the moment and I'm labelling it depression because I have suffered in the past!!!

Sorry to sound a bit ignorant, but where does feeling a bit c**p end and postnatal depression begin, IYSWIM? I often feel down, think to myself what a dreary drudge of a life I lead, how I'm so trapped that I can't go out without planning everything with military precision first... But I always always know that deep down I am very lucky and I have two beautiful children and a lovely DH. I never doubt this, but I still often mourn my lost freedom. Is this depression - or is this just LIFE??

Catt, when I was at the height of my depression, I basically couldn't function day to day. I was incapable of doing anything for my baby dd, as I was terrified of doing something 'wrong'. I would have panic attacks at the thought of leaving the house, couldn't eat or sleep properly.

However, it started with being unable to breastfeed (which I really wanted to do as I hadn't really tried with my ds) and I just felt very low and tearful. It all escalated from there.

That is what I am scared of now, that this is the start of the slippery slope to depression. Although, as you say it could be a case of it just being life.

Lynne33 - what you say about not being able to function day to day sounds like the key to it. I guess if you can still carry on with doing things even if you feel low, then it's just life, but if things get too much and you can't function then it's something more than that.

I hope things go better for you this time - at least you can recognise the warning signs a bit earlier and maybe try and talk it through with someone before it gets too strong a hold? I know something that keeps me going is being able to say to DH or a friend that I feel c**p. There's nothing worse than having to put a brave face on it - which I always have to do when my mother's around. She thinks, how can I possibly be fed up when I've got two wonderful kids? Honestly, doesn't she remember what it was like?!!

Hi again, quick question, we all know about the low/bad days (like yesterday) but does anyone have good days when you feel on a real high? I seem to fluctuate between the 2, do the pills have this effect? I'm on prozac, is anyone else?
Sorry that was more than one question.

Hi, everyone! Had a pig of a night, dd is only sleeping in my arms and refusing to go into her cot, and we are all shattered. I had to go to the supermarket and missed half the things I needed. However, dh is at home and we've had a nice afternoon together. It's interesting about the not being able to function thing, I manage most days fine, but there are certain things I can't face the thought of (like driving on the motorway with dd), and I don't like leaving her with anyone other than dh. It's the irrational thoughts that get to me, and the not breastfeeding - it doesn't help that people can be crashingly insensitive on that issue.

How is everyone today? mcm, I've been with dh for 16 yrs -over half my life! - and have been married for 10 yrs, so that wasn't a shock at all. But becoming a mum has caused a massive change in our relationship. And I thought I loved dh as totally as I could love another person. I wasn't prepared for how overwhelming my love for dd is, and how vulnerable she'd make me feel. Germaine Greer says something in her book about motherhood opening us up to the worst pain possible.

ionesmum, you are so right about people being insensitive about the fact that you are not breastfeeding. What made it worse was that my sister had her ds just 3 months before me and would sit and breastfeed him happily in front of me. I wasn't about to stop her feeding him, but it just made me feel terrible.

When, my dd was given bottles she was still a nightmare to feed, would suckle enthusiatically for about a minute then squirm and scream. It took about 45 minutes for her to finish. My HV was very kind and understanding. She said it would have been virtually impossible to bf her, but that still didn't make me feel any better. I just felt that I was a failure, full stop, and no-one was going to talk me out of it.

My sister has gone on to have another baby, and even now, seeing her bf (my dd is nearly 3) makes me feel incredibly sad. I don't think I will ever get over it.

Lynne33, it is a known fact that not every woman can breast. The literature will tell you that most women can but there is a % of them who can not, it is not always down to the mother! As you said your dd, was difficult to feed with a bottle it would have been practically impossible to bf her without both of you getting into a dreadful state. A lot is made of bf, which I struggled hard with, and sometimes wonder why, when my sil is an earth mother who is still bf her 14month old. I could feel a failure over this, if I wanted to, but there are all the other things that you can and did do for your dd that make you special to her. Nobody can take that away.
Take heart, a lot of the western world babies are bottle fed, and while I support bf I also know that all babies thrieve best on a combination of all the other factors too! cuddles, hugs, being safe, being loved etc etc. I know it does not seem like much solice but I hope this helps.

mcm, thank you so much for your message, I am still crying as I type this, but they are 'good' tears!!! I am so grateful that my dd is such an affectionate, loving little girl, it makes me realise that there is, as you say, a lot more to bringing up a child than just bf.

Lynne 33

As a failed breastfeeder myself, I know exactly how you feel.
I managed just about with first boy until 8 weeks, but we thought he had colic, looking back I think he was either being starved or the milk was not good quality enough.
Determined to manage with the twins, on third day no milk there and had to swop to bottle, rang dh in tears he thought serious illness/problem with twins, dashed to hospital to find upset was about feeding.
Like he said at the end of the day as long as they get sufficient nourishment it doesn't really matter how they won't remember, its us that carry all the guilt etc.

Lynn, ionesmum, my heart goes out to anyone who wanted to bf and feels so disappointed when it doesn't work out. I am sure people will have said that guilt is so unjustified - sadness and disappointment, yes, but blaming yourselves, no ! I would have been just as upset as you, if I hadn't managed it. I hope

But my genuine question is, how should women who are bf behave around you? I don't think it would be right for mothers to go on and on at you about bf, or how wonderful it is, and so on, but if just sitting there doing it is seen as making things worse, then what can be done??

What would make things better, if anything??

Whoops...pressed post before finishing! When I say 'I hope' end 1st para, I meant I hope I never say/do anything that makes women feel worse.