MMR injections

[Smellen]

Please could someone update me on the latest relating to the MMR jabs.

Is it now "safe" to let your baby have them? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to having the single jabs?

Sorry if this is another old chestnut.

sandradee, presumably because you have more risk of catching these illnesses in certain countries where there is no herd immunity.

sandradee - I don't see how weighing up risks and choosing vaccines selectively is hypocritical at all. I would call that sensible. Are you saying all vaccines have the same risk factors/efficacy, etc across the board? Because they don't at all. For example, the whooping cough vaccine is more risky than some of the others and also one of the least effective. So that is one I would not give based on those things together.

Fairymum it sounds like you are RELYING on herd immunity to proetct your child which was the very point I was making yesterday. "presumably because you have more risk of catching these illnesses in certain countries where there is no herd immunity"

Why do you think there is a "herd immunity?" because of VACCINATIONS. This is why it is important to vaccinate so that diseases like measles (and smallpox) don't come back.

Thank goodness our parents did not question so much the reasons behind vaccination - I bet if you asked them about it they wuld say they did not even think about it - mine certainly did noy they just accepted that it was better to be protected than to run the risk of getting Smallpox. Otherwise Smallpox would still be around and killing people. Thank you older generations of the UK, I am so grateful.

Why do you think everyone thinks like your friend?

IMO it is indeed very healthy to question things and dangerous to blindly do as you're told because that is the current message from above. Advice about childcare changes all the time (weaning, etc) so I do what I think is right and think for myself.

Socci, I do think that yes it is right to question but I'm sorry in this case I just can't justify not vaccinating for a child that otherwise has no family history of autism or health problems and that health professioanls see fit to vaccinate.

We DO have duty to not only our children but to the society in which we live and when there are comments (sorry Fairymum I may have misunderstood you) that completely show the point I am trying to make.

And yes I am terrified of my child getting measles (an answer to an old comment of Spidermamma) and for good reason.

sandradee, yes seems that way. Personally though, I have given all my children the MMR and totally agree with your posts.

if you catch measles in the optimum age range 1-9 then it is generally not a serious illness in the UK, if you are in a country with poor overall health outcomes/nutrition then complications are more likely but probably not for an expat uk child

however if you have had serious adverse consequences from mmr then measles seems preferable especially if it occurs in childhood...if it hasn't been caught in the childhood window then i would reconsider a single vaccine at 10 ..

OK fairymum I take that back then - sorry.

Zippitoes, I can definitely see your point. If I had a child who had reacted badly to MMR then I would not want to take the risk with any other children. What I do think is that if the government want people to take yp vaccinating, then they should make the single vaccinations more available to everyone. The expense of them is really too much. I did consider it as an alternative but no matter how much I would do anything for my child I really did not have £300 x 3 for each of the shots.

You see I am not completely slagging off everyone's point of view and I can appreciate where you are coming from but for me to not vaccinate was never an option - it was either single or MMR.

"Socci, I do think that yes it is right to question but I'm sorry in this case I just can't justify not vaccinating for a child that otherwise has no family history of autism or health problems and that health professioanls see fit to vaccinate."

The problem I have is that no attempt is made to identify those children who may be more at risk. I disagree with mass vaccination because I dislike blanket policies. And if it goes wrong, who picks up the pieces? The parents and the child, not the government you can be sure.

OK then it seems to me that some sort of credible research needs to undertaken to identify those kids that may be at risk.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are your children / child? Mine is 14 months and he has been in nursery since he was 7 months old. Can you not at least see from my point of view how terrified I have been of him catching Whooping cough or measles? He was vaccinated with his DTTP so WC was not such a problem - it was before I vaccinated him for this when he was really young that I worried - and I too have read that the WC vaccine is not that great so I followed what they do in Australia in terms of the timings rather than over here.

I have spent the last few months waiting for him to be 13 months old so that he can have his MMR and even though it's always a risk I am so relieved that it is done.

Is there an optimum age range to catch measles or the other illnesses? My DD had whooping cough before she was old enough to be vaccinated. I definatly didn't think newborn was an optimum age for whooping cough at the time. I very much doubt a mother of a 6 month old baby would be happy for him to catch measles either. I do think, however, that they should scrap the pre-school MMR and give a MMR around the age of 12 instead.

Socci, you don't know whose child will have measles and be absolutely fine and whose child will have measles and not be fine at all.

I don't see why single vaccines should be made more available as long as all the evidence and the millions of children having been given the MMR points towards it being absolutely safe.

Poor you Fairy mum re the WC - it must have been a very worrying time.

If you were to scrap MMR at pre-school and introduce at 12 - what would the benefit of that be and what would you do instead since it's not that great if young children get mealses. I'm a bit confused.

Not sure about optimun age for catching it, but the thing on R4 today was saying they are bringing MMR forward to 9mths in some areas I think because where MMR take up rates have dropped and measles is reapperaring, kids need the immunity before the mothers immunity runs out at about 1 yr. I think. Don't quote me - can listen to it on download. V interesting.

fairymum you don't know which child will have a reaction to a vaccine by the same terms either.

small babies should have inherited immunity from the mother for measles under 9 months or even longer...where they do have inherited immunity anitbodies then the vaccination is ineffective

there is also the possibility that childhood diseases strengthen the immune system against a wide range of onslaughts while vaccination does not provide benefits in the same way

Zippi (sorry I hope you don't mind me shortening), were you / are you ever worried about your child getting measles? I donlt know how old they are but when I read what measles can do it makes me want to vacinate. And I know you will say the opposite but I'm just curious.

Well, my DD certainly did not have immunity against whooping cough and perhaps it did strenghten her immunity, but I don't really care because we nearly lost her.
Babies can get measles. Mums immunity decreases after around 6 months.

my three are now dd22, dd21 who has a little boy age 2 and ds 18..it was ds who was hospitalised after mmr (age 13months) and who has continuing problems possibly related to it, at the same time as he had it dd2 had hers (age 4) and she changed in character and went from a precocious reader to not reading.

dd1 didn't have it because she was a year older

So which of them is now immune to measles I don't know. They had all had mumps already before the mmr, and german measles

My grandson had mmr. I didn't involve myself with that decision..very hard i can tell you!

What i do find surprising that the government/leas are closing down programmes for vaccination of schoolchildren against a disease which is increasing in prevalence and for which vaccine take up was good TB

And where are the big campaigns concerning chlamydia

sorry i started this thread up again! Sandradee, just seen your question to me. I just corrected something you said so don't quite see the relevance of your question to me. My ds's story is a long one and don't feel comfortable sharing it on this thread - too full of assumptions and misinformation. I am not against all vaccinations and can see their role in medicine. However they are not the holy grail that should never be questioned that many seem to think. Some doctors and parents have discovered this.

AmyJade's story is one I know well and my heart as always goes out to her.

Really don't want to get into this any more - sorry.

I'd question the assertion that herd immunity exists because of vaccinations. Most figures show that diseases like diphtheria, for example, had declined dramatically in Britain before the introduction of the vaccine, probably due to better sanitation. And something like scarlet fever, once a standard childhood illness like measles, is almost unheard of now, though it has never had a vaccine. Although I'm sure the medical profession would claim it as a vaccine success if they could.

BTW i do think vaccinations are safe for the vast majority and lucky you if your child copes with them well.

TB vaccinations have been stopping since the mid eighties and you are unlikely to get TB if you are fit and well. I agree with your statement about STD's though, that certainly needs a bit more publicity.

We have got condoms against STD's, no?

Hello. Didn't mean to start a riot!

Genuinely wanted to know the latest research (or interpretation of...) because I lost faith in the opinions of our local "health professionals" when they advised me blindly to start weaning at 18 weeks, despite everything I'd read on the net and in print stating that 26 weeks was preferable. So, rather than taking their word for it, I wanted to be further informed.

We probably will choose to vaccinate, as one of the links posted below indicates that the link between autism and MMR has been withdrawn - however, we still, thank gawd, have some discretion over the upbringing of our children, and as such I would defend the right of any parent to choose not vaccinate if they had made an informed decision not to.

The problem today seems to be that the media and government sources themselves have lost credibility with parents as it seems that the bottom line is usually efficiency/expediency.

Anyway, thanks for some of the ideas here.