MMR injections

[Smellen]

Please could someone update me on the latest relating to the MMR jabs.

Is it now "safe" to let your baby have them? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to having the single jabs?

Sorry if this is another old chestnut.

sandradee have you even read my posts? I will also have to bow out of this thread as you are now spouting ill informed hyperbole about people living in bubbles despite my genuine attempts to help you understand part of the alternative debate.

I won't judge your choices as I believe you are doing what you believe is right for your child and others. If you insist on contuing to judge mine, kindly familiarise yourself with both sides of the debate.

sandradee, I am NOT relying on other people vaccinating their children in order to keep mine "safe". I do not believe that vaccination is good for children, mine or others. It gives me an uncomfortable feeling in my tummy when I hear about (any) children being vaccinated; the whole thing really scares me. Children gain valuable immunity from having childhood diseases. I know there can be complications, but I feel that the possible (and largely unknown) effects of vaccination are potentially much worse.

I'm just really glad that the choice was taken out of my hands with ds2. As he is in a "high risk" group, I did not want to leave him unvaccinated, but as he is highly allergic to egg, he wasn't allowed the MMR. He had had the measles & rubella jabs seperately, but can not have the mumps as that is the part of the vaccine that is cultured in hens eggs. If/when he outgrows his allergy, I will have him vaccinated for mumps as well.

I can definately see both sides of the argument and feel for any parent having to make a choice as to what's best for their child & family. There is no excuse to knock others for their choices and beliefs.

Good luck with your choice Smellen

Ok let's take the case of Smallpox - now completely eradicated from the world. Yes that was a vaccine that had a bad reputation and yet our parents (depending on how old you are) did it because they knew that if their child contracted Smallpox then it was far worse. My parents were examples of that. We lived in West Africa and it just was not even an issue to NOT vaccinate me against Smallpox.

Vaccines are developed for a good reason, not the bad ones that people seem to think. The damage that has been done over the last few years regarding MMR has set us back a decade at least. Yes measles does go in cyles and we are due another on in the next few years (2010 I've read). that's going to fun for all of us isn't it? If the majority of society was protected then it would not be such an issue.

sandradee i think you are stereotyping people who choose not to vaccinate. I can understand why you would be irritated with people who react in an ill informed way, but it is simply not the case that everyone who makes this decision is ill informed some may even be more informed than you . My ds is not vaccinated yet (he's nearly 2 and i am keeing the situation under review). i do not pretend to be perfectly, or even well informed. In fact i think that is almost an impossibility with the ammount of confusing information that is around. However, i am also not naive enough to believe that governments act only for the best interest of society, and my son as an individual, with no other motives or interests. so to trust them implicitly is bonkers in my view. I have been lurking on the MMR threads for a few weeks and i am truly grateful to jimjams, spidermama etc (thanks you!) for being so generous and patient in passing on their knowledge. The pressure to vaccinate is huge. The dissenting voices are tiny in comparison but so so important for us to hear and when i make the decision every day to keep ds unvaccinated for now i don't do it because i have got my 'nickers in a twist' over some hysterical story in the tabloids or gossip at the playgroup.

Sandradee - but I don;t think that group exists. Very very very few people don't vaccinate at all. The spouted figures (from the govt) do not include people who vaccinate singly.

I know quite a number who haven't vaccinated they fall into 2 groups. Ones with vaccine damaged elder children who have not vaccinated siblings, and ones who believe in natural heath and wouldn't have vaccinated Wakefield or no Wakefield.

What I really want to know is - if MMR didn't the cause of the bowel disease in the affected children (and the novel bowel diseases is not in dispute) - what was.

Stuff in the news today aboiut Gulf War Syndrome. These vets when tested appear to have the same urine sample results as ds1 (and ds3- so far normally developing- and unvaccinated).

They've been predicting mass mealses outbreaks every year since I've decided not to vaccinate ds2. - and that was 4 years ago.

Heartmum2jamie, I am not knocking other people's beliefs and there are certainly reasons why people don't vaccinate. However, whatever the debate here and peopl'es reasons for not vaccinating, there are many people in society who do rely on the rest of us to vaccinate and that is a not resaon to not vaccinate.

I incidentally fall between the 2 camps. I would support safe vaccination practices for certain diseases, but am not a particular fan of vaccinating against routine childhood illnesses (with the exception of teenage girls against rubella).

I also wish that as they have introduced mass vaccination against childhood illnesses they would bloody do it right and provide teenage boosters. If you remove the circulating disease you remove natural boosters and so you get a whole generation at risk of childhood diseases as you adults- when of course they are serious.

"there are many people in society who do rely on the rest of us to vaccinate and that is a not resaon to not vaccinate."

Where - who are these many people. I have honestly never met one.

Sandradee has anyone ever actually told you that they've decided not to vaccinate because they're relying on others to do it instead so they don't have to?

Or are you just taking it upon yourself to presume that this is how some parents think?

One final comment - I actually kept my DS away from our good friends until he had been vaccinated against DDTP and now MMR for fear of their unvaccinated children passing anything on to him. I consulted my Dr on this at the time and asked if I was being paranoid and she said that I was not.

Again, how come that more Drs and health professions choose to vaccinate their own children than do not? I know this through people working in this sector.

Well, I have yet to meet anyone who has decided not to vaccinate because they are relying on everyone else to get their children vax'd. The only people I have met are those going down the single jabs route, those who believe in natural health, and those with children who are at higher risk, eg, already have vax damaged children, had reactions to other jabs or have family history of chrons/bowel disease/autism.

I didn't realise Doctors were never ever wrong. Of course they choose to vaccinate. It's their sacred cow. They're porogrammed not to question as they were with thalidomide etc.

Sheesh!

I don't think that people actually think "I'm not going to vaccinate because everyone else does". I think that they decide not to vaccinate because they are terrified of the vaccine (for whatever reason) and think "well there are lots of people who do vaccinate and hopefully my child will be protected as a result"

You mean terrified of the vaccine in the same way you appear to be terrified of measles?

And Spidermama, I think Doctors know a bit more than the average Joe about Vaccinations and I think you are not giving them credit for making up their own minds. Do you visit a DR when you are ill? I do and on the whole I trust what they say.

Do you realise that I have missed 17 minutes of BB for this debate and my dinner is burning in the oven. I'm signing out of this thred.

I question what they say because they don't know me as well as I do. I spent 25 years of my life needlessly suffering from asthma and taking their medication, for example. If only they'd pointed out I was allergic to dairy I could have lived a healthy life breathing well. Luckily I discovered it myself in my late 30s and have managed to get off their drugs.

I don't deny they have expertise in certain areas but we know they make mistakes. They don't know everyitng and you're naive if you think they do.

"I think that they decide not to vaccinate because they are terrified of the vaccine (for whatever reason) and think "well there are lots of people who do vaccinate and hopefully my child will be protected as a result"

Sandradee - you are obviously incapable of seeing the other side of this argument as spidermama says. I feel as though I have wasted my energy (sigh). Maybe some of us don't have the same faith in vaccination that you do. And spidermama is right - doctors have to follow a certain protocol. People who question western medicine don't make it as doctors.

I'm still here (!) And you think I don't question things either? I question everything. I admit Drs are not always right but if they are vaccinating their OWN children - does that not tell you something? They have had 7 years and some of learning about medecine and if they thought it was wrong they would not put their own kids at risk - even though they may get shitloads of money for vaccinating. They are still human.

When has anyone said that doctors are not human? I have no disrespect for doctors at all but they don't know all the answers.

Sorry Socci what do you mean by "people who question western medecine don't make it as Drs??"

I am sure you rely on Western medecine all the time. You probably give your child Calpol when they are ill, you take antibitotics if you have tonsilitis, and you quite probably take paracetamol when you have a headache. All of these things are western medecine.

I'm just as frustrated as you are since you have quite clearly not seen my point of view either.

Not all doctors do vaccinate, I know some who don't. I know one who does because he says he can't morally vaccinate other children if he doesn't give it to his own, but his kids go to a steiner school so 95% of their friends won't be vaccinated. My HV has refused to vacinate her dd because her ds1 had such a bad reaction to the MMR. When people ask her advice she gives them the NHS info the JABS number. Drs and health professionals are just like anyone else, they react to personal experience.

I rarely give calpol- only give it if the temp goes very high (above 40). In fact a lot of orthodix western doctors tell you to lay of the calpol these days. As for antibiotics- almost impossible to get out of my GP- the way it should be (so yes I do give them if prescribed because I trust him not to give unecessarily). DS3 has never had antibiotocs, he;s had calpol once I think,

doctors learn very little about vaccinations in medical school. Even less about autism. I've read more than them on both subjects.