Any old prolapse! Uterus/womb prolapse, rectocele, cystocele, enterocele, urethrocele, incontinence, pelvic floor, anterior and posterior repair, TVT etc part 4

[Ben10NeverAgain]

This is thread 3 of a long-running series of posts from ladies suffering from pelvic prolapses to support each other through the process of diagnosis, repair and recovery.

Here are the previous threads:
Thread 1
Thread 2

Info from BBC Health

What is a pelvic prolapse?

As the muscles, ligaments and supporting tissues in the pelvis become weaker, they are less able to hold in the organs of the pelvis such as the womb (uterus) or bladder.

Gravity pulls these organs down and, in the more severe cases, may appear through the entrance to the vagina.

A variety of problems can occur, depending on where the weakness lies and which organs are able to descend, but in every case there is some degree of prolapse of the vaginal wall, which begins to invert (rather like a sock turning inside out).
Prolapse of the womb or uterus is the most common prolapse, affecting as many as one in eight older women to some degree
Prolapse of the bladder, known as a cystocele, is less common.
Prolapse of the urethra (the tube that carries urine out of the bladder) is known as a urethrocele.
Prolapse of the intestines is quite rare, and known as an enterocele or rectocele.

Symptoms

Symptoms depend on which tissues descend, and how severe the prolapse is.

They may include:
A sense of heaviness or pressure in the pelvis.
The appearance of a bulge of tissue in the genital area, which can be quite alarming, and is often red and sore.
Urinary problems, such as having to urinate more frequently, feeling the need urgently, being incontinent (losing control of the bladder) or, conversely, being unable to pass urine when you need to.
Pain in the pelvis or lower back.
Sexual problems, including pain and decreased libido.
Constipation.
Vaginal discharge or bleeding.

Treatment and recovery

Once a prolapse has developed, surgery to fix the affected organs is usually the only way to cure it effectively.

However, another option is to use a device known as a vaginal ring pessary. This is rather like a contraceptive diaphragm or cervical cap. It's made of silicone or latex, and placed in the vagina to push back the prolapsed organs and hold them in place. Many women happily manage their prolapse this way.

Oh Fen - sorry it's more bad news; there is only so much a person can take, you are obviously a strong person otherwise you wouldn't have coped so far xxx Hang in there girl X

Whoknows - regarding cystoceles/rectoceles; I had a very large enterocele repaired in November and supposedly the rectocele too, but the surgeon didn't touch the cystocele although I had been booked in for a&p repairs. To be honest I think he hadn't expected to encounter the enterocele and that took all his surgery time to repair. End result, I am now having to have the cystocele done (which has got a lot worse since February) and the consultant (who is the 'main' man in this area) told me that my rectocele is coming back (maybe because of all the hassle with the stitches and having to have them surgically removed??) and he likes to repair both at the same time as it has a better result (organs in the right place??). I trust this consultant hugely (family friend and all) so I believe he is being honest and I only want all this 'fixed' as I have been exactly one year now 'half' done and am seriously fed up with having to put my life on hold for so long. The consultant did say that the cystocele is not massive but is obviously distressing me and recommends sorting everything out in one go.

Don't know if this long essay helps is any way, but this is only my recent experience. I have been told that I really must do absolutely nothing for quite a while afterwards so have spent this half term making sure my sons can start the dishwasher, put the washing machine on, sort darks from lights (!) and ..... cook!!! Lol - if nothing else they will become modern men due to my gynae disasters. Their future girlfriends will owe a lot to the fallen fanjo club (8's)!!!

x

Hello all

Well I thought I would post my experience of surgery and the first week as I remember reading other people's and found it so helpful.

TMI warning !!!

I booked into the hospital and waited for surgery there were three other women on the list also there and one kindly said at least we have the best. I did not know but my consultant apparently renown for this type of surgery and teaches it at other hospitals. This gave me a confidence boost when I needed it :)

After waiting till mid day I was wheeled down to the waiting area nerves really kicked in at this point. I was having serious doubts however just as I was about to change my mind about the whole thing the Anaesthetist came and got me. I had not signed the permission form so she made the consultant talk to me. I said I really wanted the cystocele done at the same time. He said he would look at it but as I had a very large Rectocele there was a danger of making the vagina too small. He said leave it to him and he would do his very best for me. I felt relieved and signed the form took the gas and the next thing I woke up and was in a lot of pain. The Anaesthetist took a while to get it under control and eventually they gave me a self administering morphine pump. I hasten to add this is not normal so please do not be put off. On the ward the pain was very bad but the next day they took out the catheter and the packing an eye watering experience! They wanted me up and about but the pain was really bad So they eventually gave me a commode at the side of the bed. I sort of got the impression they thought I was a bit of wuss! Anyway another nurse came to take the commode away and realised it was just full of blood call the doctor who came to examined me. He said I had a live bleed and they took me straight back into surgery. After that was sorted out the pain went down dramatically. So I think the initial pain was due to the bleeding.

After the pain settled I found out I had had both repaired so he must have thought it was ok to do so. The Rectocele repair extends down to the entrance of my fanjo but the cystocele is internal. The surgery was done endoscopically which as explained to me means they used a camera to looke inside and decide on the approach to surgery I think they may have used tools inside to do the surgery too rather then doing it manually but not sure about this bit.

I had two lovely nurses that really looked after me for a couple of days. Unfortunately the shift change meant different nurses who were not as helpful and not as informative. On the day of leaving I had to complain to get any info on wound care, medication, physio, etc. however I did get some information but basically they leave you until your six week check. Just seemed a bit hap hazard. I was also keen to make sure I could poo before I left as I knew this could be a problem. They seemed unbothered by it and just gave me lactolose.

On returning home I would say the biggest symptom initially was the tiredness. Until the constipation hit. OMG. It was turely awfull. Pain in my somache, pain up my bottom, my stomache looked like i was 6 months pregnant but the worst bit was the pulling on the stitches because of the Rectocele repair. Felt like i had a cheese grater down there! We called the ward but as I was not near to them they told me to see my GP. We used the out of hours GP service and they were brilliant. I spoke to a lovely female GP who understood exactly what my problem was made an appointment for a GP to visit. He arrived in under an hour and was just lovely so sympathetic Gave me a micro enema and a prescription for movocol and I could have kissed him when relief finally arrived. Both GP's were amazed that I had been given lactolose and at a really low does. So for you facing surgery I would stress the importance of making sure you poo before you leave hospital or you actually have some medication to help you go when you get home. lactolose is not suitable do not be fobbed off with it and save yourself a couple of days of pain. Apparently surgery can induce constipation and avoid any codeine medication as well.

Now that everything has settled down I am tired again but have limited Pain really. The bleeding has been on and off the more I do the more I bleed so i am trying to rest a lot but the mummy guilts are hard to ignore. I feel I should be doing stuff with my little girls.

I did seek a peek at my fanjo with a mirror as I was a bit worried the constipation issue might have affected it and all I can say is it's really pretty :0. I know a bit of weired thing to say but after looking at a fallen one for so long it is an absolute relief to see the bits in all the right places. I had not realised what an effect it had had on me and feeling attractive but as soon as I saw it I really felt like a new woman!

One uplifting moment was when the Anaesthetist said I had the blood pressure of a teenager. Great I thought to myself and soon I will have the fanjo to match.!

Sorry for the essay hope it helps you, any questions please ask.

I will try to post regularly to give updates.

Fen sorry read that you are having a bad time of it at the moment but maybe that is your three things out the way. My mum always said these things come in threes.

Hope things look up for you soon.

Oh one last thing there was a lady on my ward who had had a hysterectomy and the surgeon said he had left her cervix behind because sex is better if it is left behind!

That's what you want a surgeon looking out for your sex live.

Anyway don't know if any of you are having that particular op but thought I would meantion it as it might be useful.

Hi there, I'm just looking for a bit of advice and you ladies seem (unfortunately :( ) to have a wealth of experience.

I've had a few niggly issues for ages, but haven't really connected them all together, though I've been aware something isn't quite right. So, "symptoms" seem to be:

an increasing amount of urinary incontinence to the point I am avoiding sex as I lose control when I orgasm

when using Tampax I find it difficult to get them in, they come out by themselves and when I take them out they are bent.

Have recently started getting shooting pains in my nether regions. Dr Google says its likely to be proctalgia fulgax.

suffer from both urge and strress incontinence and have had episodes of faecal incontinence

after I've opened my bowels I can wipe and wipe and wipe, yet never seem to get clean so am not emptying fully

sometimes have a swelling around my anus, which have put down to piles, but feels different from the ones I had after my DC3 (large head, pushed for over three hours, needed forceps) Also had long pushing stage with DC1 as told I could push past a cervical rim. I couldn't and after oxytocin drip and pushing for five hours had an EMCS.

had a smear test a couple of weeks ago and nurse asked had I ever been told I had a low cervix. I haven't, though it has always pointed slightly backwards. She really struggled to get to it, and advised me to make an appointment with the GP.

It's not looking good is it?

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Fen - words fail me really. Big hug to you. It is difficult enough dealing with major issues such as your daughter's health when you are still fighting to get fit. They need to take your symptoms seriously and get it sorted. It makes me want to scream. I've noticed you always have time to post help to others when you are going through such difficult times. I've felt so low I have been reading but not felt I had anything to add. I'm feeling a bit perkier today.

Sure - can soooo empathise with you as wish I'd had my cystocele repaired at the same time as rectocele. At least you are on the home stretch and sound like you are in excellent hands.

Piplysmelie - brilliant post which will be so helpful for others facing surgery. I have benefited from valuable practical advice and emotional support reading others experiences. It was good you voiced concerns about having both repairs done at the same time. Take it easy. Your body needs time and after going through all this you really do need to look after yourself. Try not to feel too guilty - it is only for a short time and you don't want to have any set backs.

Lackadaisy - I can only recommend you get the earliest appointment possible with the GP you are most comfortable with at your practice. Write a list as there seems to be quite a few issues and there is nothing worse than coming out of an appointment thinking of all the things you should have asked. Good luck.

Ben 10 - great to hear you are sympton free. My repair 12 weeks ago for rectocele feels good and it is a relief to be free of pooing problems.

Work wise I have been lucky to have a wonderful manager and team at work that have been really supportive. I am still on light duties because of the cystocele which was only reported as a slight bulge during the rectocele repair. It has collapsed further but my GP is keen for me to try intensive PF exercises and oestrogen pessaries as he says it is not bad enough for a referral. I'm using a TENS pelvic floor exerciser daily and doing them at other times during the day. I have posted before that I know it is only a matter of time before it will need fixing. It's not too uncomfortable but have yet to feel 'a new woman' as Piplysmelie so eloquently described.

One positive was when I mentioned to my GP that the consultant I saw at 6 weeks said I could never again lift skis or saddles - he said this was rubbish and that was why I'd been repaired; to resume my normal lifestyle. I've mentioned my friend before who had a rectocele repair last year and then hysterectomy and cystocele repair just after me. She is doing fantastically well and at only 10 weeks post op is back to skiing at a dryslope and riding her horse. Advice from her GP who has a special interest in gynae has been to use cones to strengthen the pelvic floor so that is what she is doing plus using the TENS machine.

Good luck everyone. Chins and everything up!!!!!

Hi folks,

Hugs all around I think...lots going on for everyone right now.

Had a bit of a wobble over this last day or two. Feeling a little overwhelmed I guess. Also had a minor meltdown when I realized I will probs have my period when I'm having surgery. Called the hospital in a panic thinking it would be rescheduled but spoke to the sister and she said it really doesn't matter to them - (but ewwwww as as far as I'm concerned) , but that my appt isn't on the system yet. When I had the appt on thurs with the consultant he told me it would be tues 19th but as it was after hours and the office was shut he would call in and book it in first thing in the morning which he hadn't done by yesterday.

All will be fine I'm sure...just finding things to worry about now lol

Love to all xxx

Why are all these surgeons only doing half a job and fixing rectoceles at the time of surgery and not cystoceles too - we all seem to be having to go back a few months later to get the rest of it 'fixed'. American websites seem to recommend fixing everything in one go so that all 'bits' end up in the right place and are not pulled out of sync. Is it NHS cut backs re. surgery time, or what is going on??? If so, they are only wasting money as we all need double operating times, beds, medication, after care, etc. etc.

Moan over - hope everyone is ok x

Roseanna - it is a good thing to have your period during surgery as they will 'suck it all out'(!) and you will be saved the bother. My surgeon said it doesn't make any difference at all to them. Also, a period after surgery seems to be really extra painful for some reason, maybe because of stitches pulling? So you wouldn't have to go through that for a month . Hope you get your date confirmed and we can be op buddies! x

thanks sure - still gross, but sounds like some benefits at least hehehe!

Know what you mean about fixing everything at once. I'm still convinced I have a cystocele as well as a rectocele but no one else seems to see or feel what I can so I wonder if its very minor/ I'm quite sesitive.? Bit worried that after all this, I will end up needing more surgery for that too as I've read that a minor prolapse can get worse quite quickly after another being repaired. Or maybe I'm neurotic....TOLD you I was finding things to worry about lol

Can't wait to be op buddies...no scrub that - can't wait to be recovery buddies :)

Well done Pip....glad you're out the other side safely now after your scare, am sending healing vibes your way :)

Good luck Daisy and let us know how things go with the gp...

Hi all

Thanks for all the lovely support.

Well now into my second week of recovery, my husband has gone back to work today. Let's just say he looked fairly happy!

My Mother Inlaw has come to stay with my Sister Inlaw for a week gosh I am so lucky in my family. They are both lovely. The only thing is MIL has turned up with a really bad cold with cough, so I am downing first defence in great quantities to keep it at bay!

I did get up this morning to help with the school rush, nothing too much just being present and in the way really! I have headed back to bed now and I am sure glad to be here. I can feel my wound area pulsing so think I may have over done it! Pain really managable although I do get a few sharp pulls now and again. I have started to have really long wees which is fab, I had forgotten what they were like to be honest. So at the moment I am glad I persuaded him to do both at the same time. Feel really solid in the pelvic floor region, you know supported. Another feeling I had forgotten about. Feeling positive today :)

I do feel tired though so be prepared to rest rest rest for those of you facing the op.

Roseanne thanks for the healing vibes gratefully received. I would say not to worry about the period thing. To be honest they will really not be worried about it and as we all know we really do need to leave our inhibitions at the door to get through this. Getting the surgery done is the most important bit.

Lackadaisy go to your GP. There is really nothing to worry about they have seen it all before. Just don't be put off and ask to be referred to a urodymamics gynaecologist I think they are the best in area.

Ben10. Thanks for the post I am so looking forward to being where you are.

Fen best wishes to you and your family hope things are improving for you.

Sure best wishes for your surgery latter in the month. Glad you are finally getting it all sorted out.

Best wishes to all

Pip

Thanks for the replies. I did have some physio for bladder issues when DC3 was little, but it didn't really help. Pelvic floors helped a little bit, and like lots of people, I find it really difficult to sustain doing them for longer than a few weeks at a time, as life just seems to get in the way.

I have my period at the moment (which always reminds me there is a problem, I can happily ignore it the rest of the month). I was recently diagnosed with mixed connective tissue disorder (cross of lupus, and other auto-immune conditions) and it's easy to put down any odd symptoms to that, but this is something that ins't going away when my lupus is in remission. I'll make a GP appointment ASAP.

I'm glad there are so many positive stories on here, but sad that there are ongoing issues for some folks. I hope everyone gets sorted out one way or another soon.

Thanks again; I'll let you know how I get on :)

Hi to lackadaisy! Take care of yourself Roseanna. Thanks to all who sent good wishes.
I haven't come on to moan but I did need to ask a question of the post-op ladies..... Did any of you have painful (not agony but enough to stop me getting to sleep easily) and swollen groins? I'm now just under six weeks down the line and wondering if this is normal. Thanks.

Exactly what I'm worrying about Footle..... Waiting for a call back from hosp as I couldn't stop stewing about it. Just wanted to check here as well. While I don't feel really ill I don't feel right at all and want it sorted if there is a problem - I've had enough now! Wondering now if the nurse actually felt something when she examined me so I will ask her if I speak to her. Time for some straight answers and no more fobbing off I think.

No swollen groin at 6 weeks here fen I don't like the sound of it. Hope you do get some answers soon xx

Fen - don't forget that the stitches disappear at around 6 weeks and this could cause some swelling as everything is now being supported by scar tissue (I was told to expect slight discharge and pain at around this time too). Hope it is this that is causing your swelling (???) Fingers crossed it isn't lymph glands. Take lots of vitamin C just in case. You have also been under a lot of extra stress with your mother and daughter so it is bound to show somewhere or other, and I suppose the weakest point now for you is your groin area - just a thought to put your mind at ease (probably all rubbish but you never know) XXXX

Piply - stay in your PJ's or everyone will assume you are able to take charge again !!! Joking apart, please don't be tempted to do too much too soon as you will only end up back at square one x

Roseanna - my current surgeon hadn't seen the cystocele and when he asked me to cough whilst lying on my back with the speculum inserted, the cystocele (up to that point invisible) spat the speculum out and it hit him on the nose!! How much did I laugh??(wet knicker syndrom, literally!) He even commented that laughter was the best medicine!!! Lol! [embarassed]. He did however then examine me standing up and agreed with what I had been saying; that I did in fact have a sizeable cystocele which would definitely need fixing. All these pf exercises only seem to mask what we already know. When you are tired at the end of the day then everything just hangs out. Unfortunately surgery times seem to be in the morning when we are still able to 'contain' things! x

Thanks ladies. No sign of any stitches yet Sure! Just hope my body's not trying to best your record. I am expecting to be more sore when they finally emerge but sadly the swellings been there for four weeks, at first with no pain but it's slowly been increasing over the last two or three weeks.

Fen - get thee back to the doctors and dont take no for an answer...beggars belief what you've been through and my heart goes out to you xxx

Ladies - thank you for your wise counsel. I actually have no idea what I would do if I didn't have you to ask.

On that note, I've got another question :)
So I was driving home this evening when the hospital called and left a message for me to call back the pre op assessment dept tomorrow at 8am. Now I've seen other ladies mention such things but don't have any idea what's involved! Can anyone shed any light on what fresh hell this may be :o

Tx xxx

Hi all,it has been a little while since I posted. Been following the thread though and found it so helpful thank you. I was scheduled for surgery on 22 june for anterior and posterior repair but it was cancelled last wed due to surgeon being on 'extended leave'. I am so disappointed as I have literally been counting down the days. The secretary said last week she would get in touch with another surgeon who may be able to step in and would get back to me. I phoned today to chase up, explaining apologetically that my husband has time booked off work (as does my mum) and my dad has flights booked to come and help with toddlers and baby during recovery once husband back to work etc etc so I really needed to know whether surgery going ahead or not. She was completely unhelpful and unconcerned and said she was waiting to hear back from other surgeon's sec and there was 'nothing she could do'. So, I phoned other surgeon's sec and, guess what, she said she knew nothing about me and noone had been in touch with her!!I am so upset about it all and to be lied to on top of everything has really got to me. I only chose to see this particular surgeon because she is supposed to be the best and I turned a blind eye to her appalling rudeness during our first (and only) consultation where she read her post whilst supposedly listening to me. So now I need to find a new surgeon (female preferably, with special interest in prolapse) based in london /surrey/south. Any ideas anyone? Good luck to everyone pre and post op x

Pre-op is hieght, wieght, Bp, bloods, uriine test and if over 40 an ECG(here anyway) infromation on op consisting of leaflets and signing of consent forms.
Fen I had sore groins but like you I also had infection partly I think it may be due to wear on tear of hips ( because of age and job) and being in the stirrups legs akimbo for several hours during op aggrivated this. As sure says pain gets genarally worse at around 6-7 wks when internal stitches start going.
Well I am now 31wks after first PF op anterior posterior and Tvto AND 5 wks post mesh erosion repair and stretching of Tvto aswell as ablation of womb. Back at work and functioning to a normal capacity, no leaks when coughing and sneezing, tested to the max after virus. Sleep all night or at least 5-6hrs without peeing. Long Pee's with no need to go soon after and pooing no hands lol. Addicted to movicol but small price to pay. Sex is good no weeing during or immediately after but think I still have tiny area of mesh errosion but dont see Dr till sept so will deal with that then :). 2wks post 2nd op had pulling dragging discomfort in bowel. To be honest had this sensation since op but thought it was scarring, however as I say 2wks ago pain reached a crescendo and low and behold a massive stitch came out my back passage boy was I surprised. Since then completely painfree in bowel (must be one of those super duper stitches Sure had . For all you ladies post op hang on in there it gets better x Now I just need to win lottery so as can become a lady of leisure as work right now is very stressful but phased return is a godsend xx

Must add stitch was from first op as no stitches in bowel 2nd time round only vaginally x

Shattered - actually this sounds like you have had a lucky escape with the surgeon being on extended leave. You need somebody who is truly dedicated to this type of surgery to be poking about in certain parts of your anatomy. Forget this lot (although you are mentally geared up for surgery) and try and find another consultant who specializes in urology/gynaecology... Please... (don't make my mistakes). Are you NHS or Private - if the latter I was recommended a consultant in London (see earlier posts as I can't remember who he was as I am NHS not private). Good luck and think of it like this - if you aren't going under the knife this summer then go and have a bloody good holiday instead and get your strength up for a winter op. XXXX

Happy - Lol! with the stitch, how many months did it take to come out?? [shocked] Glad I had all 7 of my super specials removed surgically, wouldn't have been able to handle that! X

Thanks Sure. Ironically she is a top urogynaecologist-i think maybe my case was perhaps too bog standard and boring for her?! Definitely looking for someone else with a specialism in this area as you say. Have not given up on summer op yet as baby number 2 getting heavier by the day so need to get it done asap. Am private so that makes it a bit quicker/easier in theory. Will check out earlier posts. Anyone out there who has seen renata hutt or wendy reid?

3isthemagicnumber - If I remember correctly you are having your op tomorrow? Wishing you lots of luck and a speedy, painfree recovery. Please keep us posted XXXX