How long till everybody forgets how venal the Tories are?

[dropoutin]

...and vote them back in to screw us all over again? Five years, or ten?

The Tory party are masters of image re-invention and manipulation of public discourse, and clearly a lot of people are stupid. But are they really REALLY stupid (5) or just really stupid (10)?

She had full access to "the books" during the election campaign, and also full access to hundreds/thousands of spreadsheets, reports etc publicly available on the Gov.uk websites.

Well, thats clearly not correct, as Hunt himself has written to the civil service to ask why his plans were signed off but then Reeves has had hers signed off too.

They both cannot be right....

I do not recall Hunt telling us there was a huge shortfall in the public finances, do you?

How do you think Reeves should pay for the NI cuts? any ideas?

Reeves is dealing with it, thats very good, i'd have thought you as a "taxguru" would be pleased about fiscal prudence.

That’s the most cock-eyed logic ever. Hunt’s written to ask why the Treasury has given in to bullying to produce bogus figures.

As to the welfare cuts so far announced and the inevitable tax increases, if they help to pay off debt then good. If they’re used to sweeten Labour’s union funders, then bad.

Bogus figures? Bullying? by whom? Hunt or Reeves, they cannot both be right.

The cuts to welfare and any tax rises are not to reduce debt but to pay for Hunts unfunded NI reductions.

The pay review bodies came up with a 5.5% pay increase, not the Unions, based on parameters set by the previous Govt, Hunt never even considered budgeting for these pay rises.

The BMA isn't associated with the Labour party

So i 'm not sure what logic you re using when you say Labours union funders?
Labours union funding comes from individual members who willing give a proportion of the union subscription to Labour, as its an "opt in" scheme.

Worse to come is reform

Sigh. They didn’t give a 20 % pay rise in one go. That’s the headline. This covers backdating and next year’s payrise.

I don’t disagree with means testing winter fuel payments when we’re in financial difficulties. (Although if there was a way to go slightly higher on the cap in terms of looking at overall monthly income I would prefer it). Lord Sugar hardly needs it does he? In fact I’m really surprised that the Tory voters aren’t happy with this as there’s so much noise about benefit scroungers normally.

Why does those on the Left assume that anyone who objects to their policies is a Tory? It’s a theme on this thread…I’m no Tory but do disagree with some of the actions of the new government. Concern for those less well off is not the exclusive jurisdiction of those who vote Labour.

I didn’t. I just said I’m surprised that Tories in general haven’t been more positive about this. The Daily Mail were quite scathing.

My view is that when will enough people hate what the Labour government does to vote the Tories back in. Or at least make them the largest party.

I think ten years at least, especially as at the next general election the Lib Dems will keep most of their seats.

Of course they’re bogus figures. Of course Reeves is telling porkies. The only people who believe her are Labour MPs and sycophants.

The most obvious giveaway is that they started rumours about the ‘hole’ before the Treasury had even done any work.

Half the fictitious ‘hole’ is Reeves’s own public sector pay decisions!

That’s true. What Tories are laughing at is Labour attacking welfare and their supporters suddenly having a miraculous conversion to the cause of social support spending cuts.

Labour’s dishonesty is breathtaking though.

Of course they re bogus figures, of course Hunt is telling porkies!!!

Only people who believe him are Tories... blah blah blah....

Bottom line is when Hunt announced his 2 NI cuts, he didn't say how he would pay for them, he also didn't budget for the PR bodies pay rises.

This partisan tribal approach you re demonstrating is, partly, why the UK is in such a mess.

Reeves has only been in for a few weeks, yet you appear to be blaming her for the ills of the last 14 years......

In 2022 the previous government were open about there being a £55 bn ‘black hole’. Quite a lot of this was due to external factors.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/comment/article-11436153/amp/What-UKs-55bn-fiscal-hole-face-Budget-tax-hikes.html

So I don’t see how Labour can be surprised- maybe they are suprised that the tories managed to reduce the deficit or ‘hole’ by £30bn!

Reeves has added substantially to this hole with junior doctors’ pay rise and will doubtless now face similar claims from other groups who see that industrial action works.

What are you talking about? If I was going to blame anyone other than the Tories for the last 14 years it would be Gordon Brown and the director of security at the Wuhan virus lab.

And the partisanship? That’s satire, right?

🙄

Which was less true then than it is now, but the Tories ran with that for 14yrs with no pushback from Labour. It worked and enough people believed it. It looks like Labour are trying the same game, but the Tories are pushing back harder.

”I do wonder why the default response for a Labour supporter when faced with someone questioning the Labour parties actions is to assume they’re a conservative. A complete unwillingness to accept questioning at all. It’s alll so tribal.”

Exactly this. It’s just bizarre this utter inability to question, query or in anyway hold their party to account is what drives others away from their message. It’s like a cult and very similar to Trump and Farage politics that they must not be questioned and any attempt to do so is a right wing plot and is met with huge defense and whataboutery. It’s truly weird

Well I think we should all just calm down a bit and wait and see how things turn out. Can’t really see much after three weeks, lots and lots of problems inherited and no easy solutions. But maybe it’s time for us to recognise that at last we have a group of people who really are doing their best. Can we really say that about the Cons since 2019? Even the civil service said they were truth twisters!

The civil service that has always being Labour. Nice try.

You ve just shown your tribalism.... blame Gordon Brown? FFS & the whole world suffered Covid, yet the UK seems to have suffered more than most.

Neither nor i, know the origins of Covid, its just conjecture.

I prefer to stick to the present, Reeves has to fix a public spend black hole, so its tax rises, welfare & public spending cuts, no one wants these but one thing is certain, its not Labours fault, they been in opposition for the last 14 years.

Luckily interests rates have started to fall, thats good many people.

Labour fit that truth twisters line and it hasn’t been long

Oh @EasternStandard let’s be serious for a moment, the whole country agreed that the conservatives really took lying and self seeking to a whole new level!

Eastern isn't known for her evenhandedness when it comes to Labour.

She would defend the Tories to n th degree and some.

Totally unlike the “Pensioners? Fuck ‘em” Labourites on here.
🙄

I have loads of Labour loyals following me round still now even 😬

What I said before the GE stands though. Higher taxes and public disorder a go go

You would defend Labour to nth degree and then some

I just don’t care about your posts as much as you do about mine