How long till everybody forgets how venal the Tories are?

[dropoutin]

...and vote them back in to screw us all over again? Five years, or ten?

The Tory party are masters of image re-invention and manipulation of public discourse, and clearly a lot of people are stupid. But are they really REALLY stupid (5) or just really stupid (10)?

Also, wasn’t the 46billion to do with Hunt’s promise to scrap NI without saying where the money would come from which would have been a 46billion unfunded promise if Hunt had done it and it had been in the last budget. That’s different to things the Tories have put in place but not funded to the tune of £22billion this yea(or possibly between April and now) and managed to overspend the emergency reserve several times over.

The Labour Part “Our fiscal rules are non-negotiable and will apply to every decision taken by a Labour government”

Rachel Reeves “We will stand by our fiscal rules, we won’t make un funded spending commitments”

Rachel Reeves “increasing public sector pay at a cost of £9.6 billion was the right thing to do, and it’s the last governments fault that’s un funded”

So half of the £20 billion ‘black hole’ (less than 2% of public spending) comes from a decision taken by her.

I don’t carry a flag for any particular party - my experience is that those that do are short of critical thinking skills. But surely no one is surprised by this?

There is none so blind as the party faithful (on any side). Ideology over facts and reality. Taking that approach negates the need for critical thinking so it’s the lazy way out.

Yes, they are completely immune to the cost of living crisis.

Exactly, it’s cruel and no I’m not a pensioner, what do the left say “be kind, think of the most vulnerable in society”. If you are young you have time to make money, if you are in your 70’s it’s very difficult to increase your income.

Tax and spend is why Labour never stay in power long op. Something they promised they weren’t going to do this time, but as usual,,,so yes, Tory will be back after Labour wreaks devastation as they do every single time.

https://www.workingwise.co.uk/state-pension-retirement/

If Labour can't get a grip of law and order or the economy then 5 years is the answer.

I am less bothered by tax increases and benefit cuts than I am by the astonishing dishonesty of this government.

It will be hard to accept as true anything they say now.

It’ll be 10 years probably.

I can’t understand why the winter fuel allowance wasn’t allocated based on council tax band like the rebate on Council tax during the height of the cost of living crisis.

Pensioners in a band C house or above keeps their WFA. It wouldn’t capture everyone but means that the pensioners in big houses who probably have more wealth don’t get it but the others do.

It was a basic and cheap way of getting close to “means testing”.

That would make more sense. I think UC/pensions credit has become a cheap way of distinguishing who needs help and who doesn’t and it’s almost certainly not adequate and misses a lot of people that need the support. Unfortunately means testing it properly would likely cost more than it saves.

True. I'm still haunted by seeing how my grandparents spent their last years; I thought society had moved on from being OK with elderly and vulnerable people living in poor conditions. I'm a floating voter and was very suspicious of Labour's vagueness pre election and I was pretty sure they'd raise taxes because that's what they do. But this speech from RR was a shock; she came across cold-hearted, cruel and revengeful. I get that there are some wealthy pensioners that don't need it but she seems quite prepared to throw poorer pensioners under the bus.

Give it till Christmas and the 33% who voted for Labour will have buyers remorse, if not before then.

I am waiting for the winter headlines:

RACHEL REEVES CAUSES PENSIONERS TO FREEZE

Labour is in so depends on the cock ups they make. If people are happy but not just one sector of society but all. They will be staying so preoccupied yourself with the government in charged.

I thought we’d see what we are. Higher taxes and disorder

I’ll give them a bit longer but pensioner response is an issue and they’ll struggle with trafficking which will increase chance of more disorder

RR is a liar. Vat for private school now from January. Mid year and early than she said.

There wasn't much enthusiasm for Labour to begin with. About two thirds of voters voted for other parties and Starmer got less votes than Corbyn.

They won big as a protest at how bad the Tory government had been. They'll be back in in 2029 if Labour can't at least start to make things better.

Nonsense.

The tories would have had at least part funded these public sector pay rises.
But they never even planned for the PR recommendations, they knew they were coming down the track, after all they set the parameters for them, yet never set aside monies for these.

Anyway, months of strikes are extremely damaging for the economy, not least in the numbers of people on long term sick, waiting for treatment, as is having shortages of teachers in our schools.

Can anyone, hand on heart, deny Nurses, Police, Para medics a 5% pay rise after recent events?

And I remember the response on here and media over tax rises pre GE

Re pp and feeling sorry for people. I do for pensioners and people on the edges of affording stuff but remembering mn no one wanted to hear anything but how great Labour would be, I mean aggression over otherwise

The first few weeks show the reality

As opposed to the honesty of the previous Tory government?

And the whataboutery begins…

I thought Labour said they were better than the Tories? Another falsehood, presumably.

@Rummly of course they have more integrity than the last bunch. The country is in an absolute mess because of their incompetence/ greed. Now it’s time to sort it out. And I don’t think anyone, least of all Keir Starmer said it would be easy. lots of tough, unpopular decisions.
And they never said they wouldn’t have to increase tax levels; they did say they wouldn’t increase tax for working people. It absolutely shocks me that everyone seems to think they will be able to take the mess the conservatives left and sort it all with generosity to all of us within a week or two!

I think Labour need to be given a chance, but I am sceptical about them now advising don't feel they have told the truth. They had access to financial data and they should have stated their intentions more clearly , also the immigration issue needs to be sorted and I am not clear on what they are doing or their plans. I will give them a chance but I am not over impressed.

Whatever you think of the last lot, there’s no doubt Labour has told massive lies and misled the nation. It’s political fraud.

I have no confidence in RR as Chancellor. I saw how she floundered in 2020 when discussing the 3 million excluded from covid support - she hadn't a clue! She should have been really attacking Sunak's mistakes, lies and falsehoods, but she just flailed around, no facts, clearly not understanding WHY 3 million were excluded, so an ideal opportunity to rip Sunak to shreds was lost. By contrast, I recall another minority MP (maybe a Green MP) clearly showed she understood the problems and unfairness and mistakes and really ripped Sunak to shreds - but because she wasn't the official opposition, the mainstream media news outlets didn't show her challenge, only Reeve's feeble attempt which actually ended up almost showing support for Sunak!! If she can't do the basic research and understanding for a scandal affecting 3 million workers, then I need to see a lot more of her before believing she's competent of getting the country through the forthcoming financial crises!