Everyone at work voting Reform

[WinkyTinky]

People can vote for whichever party they want to vote for, but I feel pretty disheartened at the amount of Reform voters I work with. They think it's funny, and that Farage has all the answers for them. They don't try to hide their racism, and even seem proud of it. I know they are trying to wind me up, but I just try to keep quiet in the corner as I know they all see me as a woke leftie. Having been excited to see the back of the Tories for at least a good few years, I'm just feeling deflated at the views of people I spend most of my time with. They're even talking about Kylian Mbappe's stance on the French elections now, with the usual "stick to the football" comment. Not sure what I want from this thread, just expressing my worries.

And Reform are racist?

It seems a sense of moral superiority and self awareness are mutually exclusive.

A voice to oppose unmanaged immigration

A voice that says that British values matter

I think most people appreciate and welcome immigrants who pay their way, contribute and most importantly enjoy and integrate well into British society.

I think the current levels of immigration are unsustainable, and worse than that, pose a very real threat to future democracy and tolerance.

It is either ignorance or foolish wishful thinking to ignore the attitudes of many of the young men arriving en masse to the UK.

There are also mor people needing care, and using the education and health care system.

The low wage needed to enter the country plus dependants being allowed means most are a net drain.

I don't understand the idea of a protest vote or voting as a message to other parties.

I think some people did that with Brexit , not actually imagining leave would happen....
I've seen several people who voted leave but later changed their mind, I'm not sure many who voted remain would say they were proved wrong and its turned out great.

Well judging from other posters comments , voting Reform also makes you thick, uneducated, white (even if you are not, then you are still white), homophobic, fascist, neo Nazi and also a supporter of Lord Voldemort.

Everyone should be able to vote for whoever they wish, but personally I've found that if you are trying to dissuade people from voting Reform then insulting or intimidating them is not the best counter argument.

Thats not how it’s actually working though

evidence from right across Europe is that immigration is fiscally negative overall, when you add in costs for housing, healthcare, education. At the top line, more tax revenue, but they are naive numbers.

I am sure you can see it for yourself when you try and access public services? It’s not hyperbole?

Reform are openly and dangerously racist.

One of their policies is to abolish the NHS Race & Health Observatory. This is a key research body into one of the aspects of serious health inequalities (avoidable differences in health and life expectancy between groups). Non-white people experience worse health outcomes and shorter lifespans for various reasons than white people and it is a scandal. The health gap is widening between the 'haves and have nots' and he wants to stop important research into it?

There are other research bodies into other aspects of health inequalities - gender, poverty etc, yet he's picking on race. But they aren't racist? Pull the other one. He's actively promoting a policy that will kill and disable more non-white people.

@Kianai absolutely agree with your points . Im from the same demographic and voted Reform too. I don't think they are racist

Reform are tapping into genuine fears and concerns held by a large proportion of the population. I think the problem has been that too many people try to shout Reform voters down by accusing them of bigotry and prejudice rather than listening to what they saying. We saw similar with the trans rights debate for many years where there was an assumption that any critique or concern raised was hateful and we could resolve everything by just being #kind. The world is more complex than this and the majority of society has finally woken up to the fact that extending one group's rights could impose on another group's right.

I think the same is true with immigration. Demographic projections are suggesting that large swathes of our country will look very different in just a few decades time. If this trend continues and then we can expect this to have a massive impact on our culture and laws. We live in a democracy so it is inevitable that the government and it's policies will reflect a radically different population. You can see how issues could arise regarding religious and cultural beliefs and the western values we now take for granted. Women's rights once again could be under threat. It isn't racist to acknowledge this or even fear mongering. We have no way of knowing how immigration will impact the future and this is a very real and possible potential consequence.

Tapping into or poking the fire- awful, hateful and divisive! Equally, if you are voting Reform through self interest as many people do unfortunately, the level of political uncertainty such extreme politics creates just damages the economy and weakens the pound- look at the chaos in France. How does extreme right wing = successful economy, it doesn’t!

Morally, I don’t know how anyone can vote for such division in society, excluding people. I was listening to a poor taxi driver in France that was crying as so scared for his children with such hostility with this politics on the rise. It was truly heartbreaking, how can anyone think this is a good idea, why do people want people to feel scared and isolated as a consequence of their vote.

@Bumpitybumper Women’s rights have come a long way in my lifetime! I don’t want to see them eroded for my granddaughters.

Womens’ rights, how does Andrew Tate view Womens’ rights, a man Farage endorsed as an ‘important voice for men?

Ok, it is costed. It's complete bollocks, but they have indeed put some numbers next to their plans 😂 Multiple economists have said the numbers are bollocks.

People believe immigration is a problem because the Tories have decimated public services and completely failed to make sure there is infrastructure for new housing. We are an island, this country is made up of immigrants. We need immigration. Immigrants are not the cause of all your problems. I cannot believe people are blithely believing everything Nigel Farage says - can't you see he's a liar? A privately-educated wealthy man with a Coutts bank account who pretends he's a man of the people? Ha! You're all being had.

Have you seen how many Reform candidates have been dropped for racism? And they need to sack my local one too, his Twitter likes were a shitshow of Islamaphobia and xenophobia. Disgusting man.

Perhaps not every Reform candidate is racist. But they sure as hell attract them.

I'm not voting for Reform. My point is that I can see why people do if they believe that the other, more mainstream parties don't take their concerns seriously or worse, label them as prejudice for having these concerns in the first place. This will only push people towards extremists if they think they are the only ones who listen and represent at least some of their views.

We should have learnt more from Brexit. Lots of people are afraid and we need to understand why. Progressivism comes with trade offs and we need to decide as a country what we are happy to gamble and potentially lose. This is true for all major issues like trans rights, immigration and taxation. If people are pushed too far and begin to fear that they risk losing something very important to them then they will naturally become more desperate and extreme. We need politics to remain as centrist as possible for all of our sakes.

😂

@SnapdragonToadflax is Farage any to Keir "my father was a toolmaker" Starmer? They are all millionaires not just one of them.

Yep, was going to say the same. Think it was a 'landslide victory' then.

Funny that...

Keir Starmer made his money working as a human rights lawyer, and then as Director of Public Prosecutions and head of the Crown Prosecution Service - a position of very high standing and substantial remuneration (as it should be). He most likely also makes money from public speaking, and from his book.

By contrast, Nigel Farage made his money in banking, stocks and shares, by running various businesses, by being an MEP who did absolutely no work, media appearances, I'm a Celeb, making videos on Cameo (including the 'Up the Ra' one, and by gaining significant favours from dodgy businessmen like Arron Banks.

Not quite the same, are they.

And here we go, another Reform candidate has realised the type of people she's been associating with: www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c7204p2r0dkt?post=asset%3A621040da-6fd6-4d7f-9213-77e0c5cdce14#post

And Reform voters still say “Oh why do you woke lefties all think we’re racist?”

If you vote for racists, we’re going to think you’re racist.

One trend that is driving me insane is changing what terms mean and then expecting the world to follow. "Supermajority," "woman," "trauma" - fgs can we just go back to using proper definitions? If you mean "large majority," say so.

Who is ‘we’? I’m sorry but I’m a Voter like any other, I don’t need to persuade people of anything, the political parties need to persuade me just as much as those that are thinking of voting Reform. That is like arguing, that those voting Reform need to understand what is motivating me to vote for The Greens or The Labour Party- do I think they give a shit- no, so why do I have to ‘understand’ them and what motivates them?

@Anonym00se I don't care what you think. Let's democracy decide!

Yes, but enjoy the Principles of Democracy before the Reform voters vote for their friendly member of the establishment- Farage!