Everyone at work voting Reform

[WinkyTinky]

People can vote for whichever party they want to vote for, but I feel pretty disheartened at the amount of Reform voters I work with. They think it's funny, and that Farage has all the answers for them. They don't try to hide their racism, and even seem proud of it. I know they are trying to wind me up, but I just try to keep quiet in the corner as I know they all see me as a woke leftie. Having been excited to see the back of the Tories for at least a good few years, I'm just feeling deflated at the views of people I spend most of my time with. They're even talking about Kylian Mbappe's stance on the French elections now, with the usual "stick to the football" comment. Not sure what I want from this thread, just expressing my worries.

“there is nothing wrong with wanting a smaller state and to achieve growth from lower taxes.”

14 years of this approach and it hasn’t worked, the Liz Truss budget debacle being the pinnacle of this ideology. The definition of stupidity is to repeat and expect a different result.

Taxes are higher now than they were under Labour. Labour and Tories are two cheeks of the same a**e, afaik.

I was working in school at the time of the brexit referendum.
I don't discuss politics / religion at work full stop , never have or will .
Worked with two teachers who on separate occassions when asked about Brexit told children we were living " in very scary times " .
When I approached both separately and whilst alone to say I didnt think giving personal opinions were appropriate I was ostracised in the staff room afterwards .
I was deemed to be " leaver " and therefore labelled so and avoided the staff room after one teacher crocheted white poppies and gave everyone one except me 🤣 .
There was also a big party that everyone was invited to , apart from me .
All for not choosing to discuss politics at work or in the classroom ( these children were year 3 so 8 at the oldest ) .
I left soon after as I have no issue working with people who choose to vote in whatever way they see fit but the oddness around how I was treated and the ensuing class discussions when Brexit was announced made me feel differently about the people I worked with .

Some of them are dinosaurs. Not just relatives. Personal experience. And many don’t pay up either. Quite happy to fiddle their taxes.
My comment was in response to the ‘architect’ who claimed all the construction workers were silent tories which I guess knowing the party’s struggle with integrity fits perfectly.

There has not been 14 years of this approach at all - the tories have forgotten what conservative values are, they have become large state and high taxes.

The tax, tax, tax plan from the majority of the parties going into the election is only going to cause more problems.

I am not floundering - I was purely stating that just posting a link to the Guardian was not going to give a balanced view.

For some people Reform are of no interest, to others they appear to have conservative opinions especially on small state and low taxes. For some people Labours opinions on high taxes and more state intervention do not appeal. Neither are wrong or right, but a choice for the electorate to choose.

People who are voting Labour, how much tax are you prepared to actually pay?

£150 a month?
£100 a month? That ok?

I think for the average earner it’ll be somewhere in that region.

I don’t want to do that tbh, think we pay too much tax already.

At least Reform are stating ways to cut spending, the big one being the colossal con of net zero.

Think how much you'd have to pay in tax if we had net zero immigration. Nothing would add more to your taxes than that.

Does voting reform make you an instant racist?

@Franzkafkascat

"What ? Spontaneous combustion ? Soviet flag above Buckingham palace ? Royal family rounded up and banished to exile ?"

Not likely any of that. I meant it literally, not sarcastically: wait until we see what they bring. The Tories have to go, zero debate on that. We have to wait and see whether we are better off under Labour. My guess is not much, if at all, and possibly worse. I want to be cautiously hopeful, but I've a sinking feeling in my gut.

Absolutely horrifying. Same as reading about Black and Asian voters going with Reform.

Are you in Ashfield with 30p Lee?!

What industry or line of work are you in OP?

I fall into this group perhaps. I have already postal voted for Reform, and I am an immigrant.

Mainly in protest at the unchecked importation of ideologies and attitudes that are the reason I fled my country in the first place.

Yes, there are bad men, rapists and murderers in every race and religion. But I do not think western women can comprehend the scale of barbarity in some countries towards women. Hundreds of men gang raping, torturing and tearing women apart. Infront of each other with no shame or guilt.

I escaped to give my daughter a better life. Now the men I ran from are gathered in a huge group at the corner of her school and I feel the same old terror again every day.

And no one else is talking about it. I have been called a coconut and an idiot for even trying to open the discussion. As far as I see, Reform are a half baked notion of a party, but it represents a way for me to get the conversation intoI to the mainstream.

Which taxes are you expecting to go up, to cost £150 a month to an average earner? There's absolutely nothing in the manifesto to suggest that, it's just scaremongering.

Personally I would happily pay a bit more in tax to have functioning public services, and I also expect Labour to make them more cost effective. We currently pay tax for shit public services because the Tories have cut them to the bone, resulting in councils having to choose the cheapest option. Hence, for example, why roads get patched with poor quality materials which disintegrate within a few months and need doing again, rather than resurfacing properly.

Reform's manifesto is completely uncosted. They can say what they like, they know they won't get in. It has been worked out that it would cost the country roughly the equivalent of two Liz Truss disasters to pay for the Reform manifesto.

There’s necessary, managed immigration and there’s illegal entry and overstayers. No sensible person wants to stop students, who add to the economy, or skilled workers where there are shortages. We have welcomed refugees from many countries, including Hungarians in the 1950s, Asians from Uganda and Afghans and Ukrainians more recently.

However, refugees tend to be people of all ages, families with children and old people. The vulnerable have historically been those sent to safety. Not boatloads of mainly young men. It’s hardly surprising there is some reaction when there are homeless people, sleeping in doorways or tents, and taxpayers paying for accommodation, including hotels, for newcomers, who rarely have a connection to the UK.

The Tories are large state?! The whole point of austerity was to shrink the State. They've slashed funding to councils and the public sector. The country is creaking with the lack of investment.

I don't understand why people would vote reform? What are they looking for?

I am so sick of people who think they're better for voting a certain way. Btw I'm not voting FWIW.

I think Labour, Lib Dem & Green are worse for the working person, are misogynistic, in Labour's case anti semetic etc.

That doesn't mean I judge people who vote for these parties. I assume they either don't know, or are trying their best to choose the best of a bad bunch.

Same can be said for Tory & Reform!!

All the parties have flaws & can have these accusations levelled at them. I don't judge anyone who votes for any of these - it's not easy.

Reform have actually taken the trouble to cost their plans. Again, looks like you’ve not read it. I think you’ll find it’s Labour who have done nothing near that, hence everyone not quite sure about how much tax burdens will go up for everyone.

The pp by @Kianai is sonething really worth digesting. People are so naive on immigration, both in the cultural sense but also in how they believe it ‘keeps taxes low’.

Change

A message to the main parties to sort themselves out

A voice to oppose unmanaged immigration

A voice that says that British values matter

A big FU to net zero and other vanity projects on tax payers money

An actual attempt to do something that might save the NHS which isn’t just ‘more money’
( eg. I like their policy which says anyone trained in medical school, if they stay with the NHS for 10 years, their fees will be waived, and no income tax for frontline workers for 3 years to help with retention)

A just more honest approach and contract with the people they are meant to serve

I think there is a lot of reform voters. Many secret.

i was shocked when a close friend the other day texted me she was going to vote reform as she could not bring herself to vote for the two main parties .

I didn’t engage, just moved the convo on. I’m not going to fall out with folks over politics, it’s always been my way of thinking.

however I think the election result is not going to be what everyone thinks.

Lots of people I know are voting reform too. There is concern about immigration in the forefront if their minds.

But also a total loss of belief that the country or polictical system works for them. They want reform. So the name is a good one. In their mind Nigel farage changed the uk and can do it again.

I am a floating voter. Reform is not for me. But I think people are playing a dangerous game being dismissive of what reform represents and saying its just racism. That's what led to us leaving the EU.

Even if it is just racism we need to think about that. Why are people feeling resources are so scarce it's a threat to have immigrants, why are people feeling their culture is under threat.

Why do you believe immigration lowers taxes?

Because there are more people paying taxes.