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General election 2024

Why aren't Reform voters ashamed?

519 replies

TheShellBeach · 30/06/2024 14:06

They don't seem to care that everyone will know they're racists.

It seems incredible to me that people are open about voting for them.

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Reelyeasty · 02/07/2024 13:58

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cupcaske123 · 02/07/2024 14:10

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The BNP are a legitimate political party. In a democracy we are allowed to criticise political parties. Many of Reform's candidates have been found to be racist. I'm not really sure what you're disputing.

Reelyeasty · 02/07/2024 14:12

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ACarefulTraveller · 02/07/2024 14:18

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Because democracy needs debate and discussion. The Reform supporters' cry is always 'we're being silenced, no one engages!' but actually people are on here engaging all the time - sharing evidence of shocking, hateful and terrible things that have been said by members of Reform and their candidates who are seeking election. It's vitally important that everyone is clear on who and what they're voting for and we can't turn a blind eye to people seeking to become MPs who avow their hatred and contempt for black people (and/or women and gay people). We can't pretend it hasn't happened over and over because people who want to vote for them find it uncomfortable to read the evidence of racism, misogyny and homophobia in their preferred party. You can still vote for them, but you can't stop us talking about it.

Reelyeasty · 02/07/2024 14:21

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ACarefulTraveller · 02/07/2024 14:29

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My sympathy is with people of colour and gay people who have been subject to such appalling slurs by Reform candidates and activists. I remember the day after the Brexit referendum when people of colour were told to 'go back home' and how racist hate crimes increased as a direct result of some of the Vote Leave campaigning - stoked by Nigel Farage. Now that same atmosphere is being fomented again, and it's Farage again at the helm. It's the victims of the racist and homophobic abuse that some people will feel emboldened to inflict because of Reform that I feel sorry for - because people who express openly racist and violent views are being legitimised by everyone who denies and minimises the issue of racism and prejudice embedded within Reform.

I can't feel sympathetic towards people feeling bullied on MN by the fact that racism is being pointed out. If you want to endorse a party with such huge issues around racism, other people will be horrified by that.

Anonym00se · 02/07/2024 15:46

I really don’t understand what has to happen for Reform supporters to take their blinkers off.

People: Reform are racist and misogynistic.
Reform voters: No, they’re not.
Reform candidates: Reform are racist and misogynistic.
Reform voters: No, they’re not.

If Farage blacked himself up and had a gang of bikini-clad women chasing him round like Benny Hill, would people finally accept it?

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 15:51

Anonym00se · 02/07/2024 15:46

I really don’t understand what has to happen for Reform supporters to take their blinkers off.

People: Reform are racist and misogynistic.
Reform voters: No, they’re not.
Reform candidates: Reform are racist and misogynistic.
Reform voters: No, they’re not.

If Farage blacked himself up and had a gang of bikini-clad women chasing him round like Benny Hill, would people finally accept it?

I'm finding a lot of chats with very right wing people are like that.
I'm really hoping that like the local elections, it's going to turn out that the Internet view of the world doesn't reflect reality.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 02/07/2024 15:54

I remember the day after the Brexit referendum when people of colour were told to 'go back home' and how racist hate crimes increased as a direct result of some of the Vote Leave campaigning - stoked by Nigel Farage. Now that same atmosphere is being fomented again, and it's Farage again at the helm.

But that is the fault of the obnoxious racist element in our society, it's not the fault of Brexit and it's not the fault of anything that appears on the Reform manifesto and it's certainly not the fault of Nigel Farage.

As has been explained a thousand times on hundreds of threads over the years, Brexit was about many things, but it was never about racism for the majority of people who voted for it. That's a massive over-simplification. Yes of course most horrible racists probably voted for Brexit because (in theory at least) anything that makes it harder for foreigners to move to the country is all good by them.

And with Reform, a party that promises to deal with illegal immigration in an assertive and decisive manner instead of fannying around allowing themselves to be constantly hamstrung by the ECHR, and a party which promises to lower net migration overall is going to appeal to the people who don't like any foreigners full stop. It stands to reason.

But so what? Those sorts of awful intolerant people are in the minority. There are millions more who are perfectly stoic about a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society, who recognise that immigration has some benefits and that there has long been a need for at least some immigration, but that it has to be managed carefully. They just want a return to old-fashioned common sense on a number of issues.

CassieMaddox · 02/07/2024 16:33

TwigletsAndRadishes · 02/07/2024 15:54

I remember the day after the Brexit referendum when people of colour were told to 'go back home' and how racist hate crimes increased as a direct result of some of the Vote Leave campaigning - stoked by Nigel Farage. Now that same atmosphere is being fomented again, and it's Farage again at the helm.

But that is the fault of the obnoxious racist element in our society, it's not the fault of Brexit and it's not the fault of anything that appears on the Reform manifesto and it's certainly not the fault of Nigel Farage.

As has been explained a thousand times on hundreds of threads over the years, Brexit was about many things, but it was never about racism for the majority of people who voted for it. That's a massive over-simplification. Yes of course most horrible racists probably voted for Brexit because (in theory at least) anything that makes it harder for foreigners to move to the country is all good by them.

And with Reform, a party that promises to deal with illegal immigration in an assertive and decisive manner instead of fannying around allowing themselves to be constantly hamstrung by the ECHR, and a party which promises to lower net migration overall is going to appeal to the people who don't like any foreigners full stop. It stands to reason.

But so what? Those sorts of awful intolerant people are in the minority. There are millions more who are perfectly stoic about a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society, who recognise that immigration has some benefits and that there has long been a need for at least some immigration, but that it has to be managed carefully. They just want a return to old-fashioned common sense on a number of issues.

If that's the case why are Reform already having these problems?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c29dx381l74o

Nigel Farage has created a climate that attracts racists and misogynists to his party. He's in charge,this is absolutely "his fault".

Reform UK rosette pinned to a campaigner

Second Reform nominee defects to Tories over 'racist' candidates

Georgie David labels the "vast majority" of her fellow candidates “racist, misogynistic and bigoted”.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c29dx381l74o

ACarefulTraveller · 02/07/2024 16:41

TwigletsAndRadishes · 02/07/2024 15:54

I remember the day after the Brexit referendum when people of colour were told to 'go back home' and how racist hate crimes increased as a direct result of some of the Vote Leave campaigning - stoked by Nigel Farage. Now that same atmosphere is being fomented again, and it's Farage again at the helm.

But that is the fault of the obnoxious racist element in our society, it's not the fault of Brexit and it's not the fault of anything that appears on the Reform manifesto and it's certainly not the fault of Nigel Farage.

As has been explained a thousand times on hundreds of threads over the years, Brexit was about many things, but it was never about racism for the majority of people who voted for it. That's a massive over-simplification. Yes of course most horrible racists probably voted for Brexit because (in theory at least) anything that makes it harder for foreigners to move to the country is all good by them.

And with Reform, a party that promises to deal with illegal immigration in an assertive and decisive manner instead of fannying around allowing themselves to be constantly hamstrung by the ECHR, and a party which promises to lower net migration overall is going to appeal to the people who don't like any foreigners full stop. It stands to reason.

But so what? Those sorts of awful intolerant people are in the minority. There are millions more who are perfectly stoic about a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society, who recognise that immigration has some benefits and that there has long been a need for at least some immigration, but that it has to be managed carefully. They just want a return to old-fashioned common sense on a number of issues.

Well the problem is that a lot of that 'obnoxious racist element' are actually standing for Reform this week.

You can't vote for a party whose candidates and members espouse hateful racist views and then say that racism has nothing to do with you. If you vote for them, you are endorsing racism whether you consider yourself racist or not.

The people who represent Reform say racist things on numerous, repeated occasions over and over again. You can see mountains of evidence of racism from Reform candidates with the most cursory Google. If you vote for them, you're saying you're OK with that.

It isn't a few bad apples. In the words of two former Reform candidates this week - racism is widespread throughout the party and the party leadership are doing nothing to address it.

TheShellBeach · 02/07/2024 16:43

In the words of two former Reform candidates this week - racism is widespread throughout the party and the party leadership are doing nothing to address it

Because racism is their raison d'etre.

OP posts:
MotherFeministWoman · 02/07/2024 16:58

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 02/07/2024 10:37

Another reform candidate has defected over racism/misogyny. Anyone trying to deny the issue is willingly blinding themselves at this point.

She is reported as saying that the "vast majority" of Reform candidates are "racist, misogynistic and bigoted" and criticised "the failure of the Reform Party’s leadership to tackle this issue in any meaningful way, and their attempts to instead try to brush it under the carpet or cry foul play."

Edited

How did she not already know this?

MissingMoominMamma · 02/07/2024 18:23

Churchview · 30/06/2024 18:37

My brother in law is voting Reform.

I strongly believe he is voting Reform out of fear.
He lives in a world of conspiracy theories and the kind of media outlets and websites that blame foreigners for all wrong doing.

Anyone who thinks differently to him is woke, virtue signalling, a lefty or has not 'seen the light' to the same extent that he has. Any other MP/party/newspaper/the BBC, Fiona Bruce, judges etc are The Establishment.

Farage and Trump are not The Establishment, 'tell it like it is' and will 'stop the boats. That's why he's voting Reform.

The Reform candidate for whom he will be voting is an immigrant who came to the UK 6 years ago.

Edited

They are very proud of their multi racial list of candidates, so much so that they made a video about that, rather than their policies.

I remain to be convinced, given NF’s back story.

ACarefulTraveller · 02/07/2024 20:30

MissingMoominMamma · 02/07/2024 18:23

They are very proud of their multi racial list of candidates, so much so that they made a video about that, rather than their policies.

I remain to be convinced, given NF’s back story.

People of colour or immigrants standing for Reform make me think of women who oppose feminism. The anti-abortionists and tradwives who campaign for the removal of women's rights. I don't understand the reasons, but I can see that it does happen.

Emmanuelll · 02/07/2024 20:49

Of course they are racist. Why do you think so many people voted to leave the EU?

TheShellBeach · 02/07/2024 21:36

Emmanuelll · 02/07/2024 20:49

Of course they are racist. Why do you think so many people voted to leave the EU?

Exactly

OP posts:
TwigletsAndRadishes · 03/07/2024 08:05

I'll tell you who should be ashamed. The three main parties who have consistently failed to represent the ordinary majority, the squeezed middle. They have failed to address or deal with the big issues that worry those people most, and fail to listen to their fears and frustrations for the future. Fiddling while Rome burns, the lot of them. Prioritising everything except the biggest things that are staring us all squarely in the face.

If they could actually find it in themselves to listen, care enough and act, then there would be no need for populist parties where some people with unpleasant views get more of a platform than is ideal. Look at Trump. He's clearly a very strange and charmless man on just about every level and he has said some very unpleasant things, but I think people cease to care about that after a while. What they want is someone who listens to their concerns and is prepared to act on them, firmly and decisively without giving too much of a shit about what the bleeding hearts think. And there is plenty of evidence to show that life improved under Trump for the majority of ordinary Americans.

Charm and charisma and is all very well, but if presidents and prime ministers smile at you, snake charm you with their slick, smoke and mirrors oratory and soothe you with promises, while systematically implementing policies that erode your standard or living, undermine your culture, your job security, your ability to make a fair living or build a business, or to have a decent home, or to keep your family healthy and safe, then it all counts for nothing.

I think people are starting to care less about optics and carefully curated image, and more about listening to what a politician says they will do, then watching to see if they will actually do it. Unfortunately, both the main parties have consistently demonstrated that in spite of what they say, they don't really care about what ordinary British people think, or need, or want, or lay awake at night worrying about.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 03/07/2024 11:16

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 30/06/2024 22:19

Because they are thick as mince

Can I recommend this book? Anyone who, like you, clearly struggles with the affliction of the progressive left, namely the urge to be revoltingly contemptuous and sanctimonious, might it helpful in their personal development journey.

www.bitebackpublishing.com/books/the-new-snobbery

Goldenbear · 03/07/2024 12:12

TwigletsAndRadishes · 03/07/2024 08:05

I'll tell you who should be ashamed. The three main parties who have consistently failed to represent the ordinary majority, the squeezed middle. They have failed to address or deal with the big issues that worry those people most, and fail to listen to their fears and frustrations for the future. Fiddling while Rome burns, the lot of them. Prioritising everything except the biggest things that are staring us all squarely in the face.

If they could actually find it in themselves to listen, care enough and act, then there would be no need for populist parties where some people with unpleasant views get more of a platform than is ideal. Look at Trump. He's clearly a very strange and charmless man on just about every level and he has said some very unpleasant things, but I think people cease to care about that after a while. What they want is someone who listens to their concerns and is prepared to act on them, firmly and decisively without giving too much of a shit about what the bleeding hearts think. And there is plenty of evidence to show that life improved under Trump for the majority of ordinary Americans.

Charm and charisma and is all very well, but if presidents and prime ministers smile at you, snake charm you with their slick, smoke and mirrors oratory and soothe you with promises, while systematically implementing policies that erode your standard or living, undermine your culture, your job security, your ability to make a fair living or build a business, or to have a decent home, or to keep your family healthy and safe, then it all counts for nothing.

I think people are starting to care less about optics and carefully curated image, and more about listening to what a politician says they will do, then watching to see if they will actually do it. Unfortunately, both the main parties have consistently demonstrated that in spite of what they say, they don't really care about what ordinary British people think, or need, or want, or lay awake at night worrying about.

I’m the ‘squeezed middle’ but I still wouldn’t vote for a load of hateful arseholes! Terrible to treat other humans as lesser than you, inflict fear on people trying to get on with their life like the French Taxi Driver who was crying about his children’s future in radio 4 after the French win of fascism. How do you think suspicion and hate of others makes anything better in the long run!

TwigletsAndRadishes · 03/07/2024 12:27

Goldenbear · 03/07/2024 12:12

I’m the ‘squeezed middle’ but I still wouldn’t vote for a load of hateful arseholes! Terrible to treat other humans as lesser than you, inflict fear on people trying to get on with their life like the French Taxi Driver who was crying about his children’s future in radio 4 after the French win of fascism. How do you think suspicion and hate of others makes anything better in the long run!

Can you show me something in the Reform manifesto that is relevant to the situation with the taxi driver in France?

RN are a far right party but arguably not a fascist one.

Reform is neither far right nor fascist. Just because certain people keep repeating those words doesn't make them true.

EasternStandard · 03/07/2024 12:33

Goldenbear · 03/07/2024 12:12

I’m the ‘squeezed middle’ but I still wouldn’t vote for a load of hateful arseholes! Terrible to treat other humans as lesser than you, inflict fear on people trying to get on with their life like the French Taxi Driver who was crying about his children’s future in radio 4 after the French win of fascism. How do you think suspicion and hate of others makes anything better in the long run!

Far right in France but fascist?

Newbutoldfather · 03/07/2024 12:43

@TwigletsAndRadishes ,

Whilst I do understand why Reform appeals, and I really liked your post upthread and book recommendation, I still don’t think Reform is the solution and I do believe that their fascism and racism is only temporarily hidden. You just need to look at the people. Unless they have all crossed the rubicon in the last year, they are not far off the National Front. As a Jew, I would be scared if they got a sniff of real power (google Farage’s antisemitism at school).

But allowing inequality to grow, only really favouring the top decile to quintile, while at the same time importing almost unlimited immigrants to keep working class wages down, is a recipe for revolution.

The main parties can’t continue to ignore the electorate and stay in power.

solsticelove · 03/07/2024 13:40

caringcarer · 30/06/2024 18:38

I don't think I'm racist. I just think too many people are coming into the UK too quickly for the infrastructure to cope. There isn't enough money to build more hospitals, schools, prisons, doctors surgeries, dentists etc. Also I don't think it's right that more than half of all social housing is given to people not born in the UK, meaning those born here are going to the bottom of the queue. Other countries don't prioritise immigrants over their own citizens.

But these issues aren’t caused by immigrants! These issues exist because of the total stripping back of public services over the last several years.

To blame immigration is far too simplistic. It’s not that immigrants are prioritised over native people. We’ve all got it shit! If you want someone to be a scapegoat for all the issues in our society blame the Tory government. Stop scapegoating immigrants.

Do you realise the NHS would fall apart without immigrants? Do you realise we’d have no-one to pick our food? The help ‘plug the gaps’ in our workforce. Do you realise immigration actually helps boost the economy?

caringcarer · 03/07/2024 15:08

solsticelove · 03/07/2024 13:40

But these issues aren’t caused by immigrants! These issues exist because of the total stripping back of public services over the last several years.

To blame immigration is far too simplistic. It’s not that immigrants are prioritised over native people. We’ve all got it shit! If you want someone to be a scapegoat for all the issues in our society blame the Tory government. Stop scapegoating immigrants.

Do you realise the NHS would fall apart without immigrants? Do you realise we’d have no-one to pick our food? The help ‘plug the gaps’ in our workforce. Do you realise immigration actually helps boost the economy?

I'm not against legal immigrants, just the illegal ones crossing the channel and risking lives illegally.