Why aren't Reform voters ashamed?

[TheShellBeach]

They don't seem to care that everyone will know they're racists.

It seems incredible to me that people are open about voting for them.

@Bunty1958
Why don’t you like to see women in burkas? Is it just Muslims you dislike?
A lot of immigrants are Christians, do you feel differently about them?
What about British born muslims?
Genuine question but do you just not like certain ethnicities?
Some of the nicest women I’ve met are Muslim and most of them British born and bred.

I think people have an issue with the burka is that it covers the eyes and face. In British culture, a lot of information and communication is done by the face and eyes. The burka others the wearer.

I’m autistic, not looking someone in the eyes is fine for me.

@1dayatatime on attempting to persuade hard right voters, trying to politely explain the benefits of the single market in a thoughtful way didn't really work in 2016 did it. You just need to lay it out to there. And tell people it's foolish to think that Farage has answers for their problems. He is pandering to prejudice, fear and alienation. Like all populists and grifters. And in the end, you just have to tell people this without wittering over whether they will be offended.

What do you mean?

I think most people don't mind people coming from other countries, it's the illegal ones they don't want here, they have no passports, no way of being traced, so could have criminal records and no way of knowing any of this, the could be murders, rapists or anything and we can't trace them because they have no paperwork.

@TarantinoIsAMisogynist , I saw Mr Farage interviewed by Sir Trevor Phillips this morning. Sir Trevor said, and I thought it rather moving that he instinctively knows when someone dislikes him for the colour of his skin. He went on to say that he had known Mr Farage for over 20 years and knew absolutely that Mr Farage did not have racist views towards him. I am absolutely sick to death with people who insist Mr Farage is racist. He is not and I can only assume that those who draw this conclusion are not able for whatever reason to sufficiently determine the abundant evidence to the contrary.

I've downloaded and read all of the main manifestos. However they aren't always complete or honest.

Labour's 1997 manifesto didn't include Gordon Brown's taxing private pension pots and making the Bank of England more independent. Both pretty important things to have omitted.

For many it is a protest vote against the conservatives a bit like Labour voters voting Green because Labour isn’t socialist enough for them.

@Lovepeaceunderstanding Do you know Farage personally? You sound like you know him very well!

You say he’s known Trevor Phillips for 20 years? That’s the thing with racists. They don’t mind the black or Asians that they actually know, it’s all the others they don’t like. “I’m not racist. My mate Jamal from work is sound, but it’s the other smelly fuckers that I don’t want here”. (This was actually said to me by a UKIP supporting kitchen fitter in my house) They’ll truly believe they’re not racist because there’s a black guy in work that they like.

Your anecdote doesn’t magically negate the numerous anecdotes that the Enoch Powell fanboy is racist.

But voting for someone just to spite other people who are rude about you is really stupid behaviour though

@MotherFeministWoman

"But voting for someone just to spite other people who are rude about you is really stupid behaviour though"

Is it though? Clearly you are not going to vote for the party that are rude to you or mock you as thick or racist.

So you then have a choice of either not voting at all or to vote for the other party that opposes those that have been rude or mocked you.

Reform are not "the other party" though. They are one of the other parties.

And yes, I still think voting out of spite is stupid.

That would be cutting off your nose to spite your face though. How do you know which party the mockers support?

So you can say spheres of influence belong to whatever school and we have a rules based international order but if you are dealing with people that believe they have a de facto sphere of influence and are only willing to go along with the rules based order so long as it suits them then what you have said doesn't matter. For instance we know China dislikes the current rules based system because it sees it as a Western construct which suits the USA but China. It lobbied KSA hard to stop the petrol dollar system and undermine the post Bretton Woods dollar financial system. Equally Russia doesn't think in the same way as a liberal western person about foreign policy so is very likely to think in terms of spheres of influence.

As I said previously, it might not be correct but it is interesting and not without logic. The premise I find it hard to ignore in particular is that not all of the world thinks about foreign policy from the same perspective as a liberal western person. If you assume China and Russia think in the same way you do I suggest you are wrong.

For some reason it seems to be all about immigration. She's bought into all the rhetoric - she lives somewhere predominantly white and isn't remotely affected by it.

The only way you’d really know if this was just about race/ colour/ culture is if white ( mostly young men ) from say Sweden, were entering our country illegally every week in small boats.

One is lauded by the leader of a political party for his views, the other is not. That is the difference

@cupcaske123 it wasn't for you - I must have misquoted a reply of yours to the poster who said they were voting reform as they are the only party who didn't hate women. If reform were in charge, I doubt I'd raise my daughter in this country - she certainly wouldn't be safer under their government (and what that means to the country as a whole).

I don't think anyone wants illegal immigrants here, even for their own sakes they are not protected, can't work, can't claim benefits.
But my feeling from this thread and others is that quite a few people have problems with people coming here even legally.

Regardless - how are Reform going to stop people coming here illegally? How are they actually going to stop them?

@EarthlyNightshade

"Regardless - how are Reform going to stop people coming here illegally? How are they actually going to stop them?"

Well they claim that they are going to return them to France which ironically is no longer possible because of Brexit championed by non other than Farage.

@EarthlyNightshade But my feeling from this thread and others is that quite a few people have problems with people coming here even legally.

I’d say that’s correct. 1.2 million people came to the UK last year, and only 29 thousand of those came in boats - a drop in the ocean (no pun intended).

We'd already be returning them to France. France won't take them back.

@cupcaske123

"France won't take them back"

Correct and post Brexit are under no obligation to do so.

Farage thinks it will be solved by taking us out of the ECHR but it won't; all that will do is take away many of our rights. Push backs are against Maritime law and the Refugee Convention.

I mean, I know it's irrelevant as Reform will not be the next government but if they were, would their voters be expecting them to stop immigration?

Or do they just want to have a mandate to be able to complain about immigration without concerns of being called racist, etc?

Because in my view Reform are going to be no more able to stop immigration than the Tories have been.