Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

General election 2024

Why aren't Reform voters ashamed?

519 replies

TheShellBeach · 30/06/2024 14:06

They don't seem to care that everyone will know they're racists.

It seems incredible to me that people are open about voting for them.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:44

BionicBadger · 30/06/2024 19:42

Yep, and a lot of labour supporters are anti-semites and misogynists. Whatever are we to do?!

What Labour have done to address antisemitism - change the leader, expel antisemites, change the culture of the party. Reform could do that.

Misogyny - well, the Labour leader hasn't endorsed Andrew Tate, so the party is doing better on that front than Reform.

SpindleyDindley · 30/06/2024 19:44

The more I see posts like this the more it consolidates my decision to vote for reform. Perhaps make counter points against their policies rather than labelling all of their voters as racist. It is getting very tiresome.

BionicBadger · 30/06/2024 19:45

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:44

What Labour have done to address antisemitism - change the leader, expel antisemites, change the culture of the party. Reform could do that.

Misogyny - well, the Labour leader hasn't endorsed Andrew Tate, so the party is doing better on that front than Reform.

Sorry but this is just laughable. Whatever labour have done to address their baked in misogyny and anti-semitism clearly hasn’t worked in the least has it!

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:46

Justcallmebebes · 30/06/2024 19:44

And just out of interest, does your quite rightful denunciation of racism include the anti semitic rhetoric proven within the Labour Party?

I've lost track of how many times on this thread I've discussed that Starmer was elected as leader of the Labour Party with a vow to purge antisemitism from the ranks. Under his leadership, Labour has changed. He has expelled antisemites. He has changed the party. I can't keep repeating it, I've typed the same thing over and over!

TinklySnail · 30/06/2024 19:46

TheShellBeach · 30/06/2024 19:41

No, I think it's okay to say that a lot of them are racists.

And you can evidence this? The reform voters I know are not racist. The racists in the reform party are no longer in the reform party. 3 candidates removed this week be a of their racist views.

Justcallmebebes · 30/06/2024 19:48

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:46

I've lost track of how many times on this thread I've discussed that Starmer was elected as leader of the Labour Party with a vow to purge antisemitism from the ranks. Under his leadership, Labour has changed. He has expelled antisemites. He has changed the party. I can't keep repeating it, I've typed the same thing over and over!

That's actually quite laughable

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:48

TinklySnail · 30/06/2024 19:46

And you can evidence this? The reform voters I know are not racist. The racists in the reform party are no longer in the reform party. 3 candidates removed this week be a of their racist views.

Good job they got them all in time! Great to know there aren't any left in Reform now, how lucky those ones got found out and we can all be confident that's the last of them!

TinklySnail · 30/06/2024 19:49

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:46

I've lost track of how many times on this thread I've discussed that Starmer was elected as leader of the Labour Party with a vow to purge antisemitism from the ranks. Under his leadership, Labour has changed. He has expelled antisemites. He has changed the party. I can't keep repeating it, I've typed the same thing over and over!

Yet it appears it doesn’t matter how many times someone says just because they vote reform, doesn’t make them a racist.
FYI I have never thought of labour as antisemitic., Corbyn was just very liberal in his views.

TinklySnail · 30/06/2024 19:50

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:48

Good job they got them all in time! Great to know there aren't any left in Reform now, how lucky those ones got found out and we can all be confident that's the last of them!

No evidence then, just sarcasm 🙄

Triestre · 30/06/2024 19:50

Why is this country so obsessed about racism? I do not see people in other countries either being racists or talking about it all the time. I travel quite a lot and is like almost unique to this country. Except perhaps the US where there has always being racial tensions. Is this country racist perhaps? 🤔

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:51

Justcallmebebes · 30/06/2024 19:48

That's actually quite laughable

Well, there haven't been any Labour candidates this week discovered to have said antisemitic things unlike in Reform where three just this week had to be dropped for their comments on black people and an expressed wish of violence against asylum seekers. So it seems pretty clear that Labour are doing a better job.

BionicBadger · 30/06/2024 19:51

No @ACarefulTraveller, Labours “efforts” have proved fruitless. They have not changed in the least. Their anti-semitism and misogyny is still clear for us all to see. Your racism smears against others are hilarious in context.

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:53

BionicBadger · 30/06/2024 19:51

No @ACarefulTraveller, Labours “efforts” have proved fruitless. They have not changed in the least. Their anti-semitism and misogyny is still clear for us all to see. Your racism smears against others are hilarious in context.

It's not quite as clear to see as the racism of Reform candidates though, is it? Otherwise we'd have a slew of antisemitic comments from Labour candidates just like we have racist ones from Reform.

BionicBadger · 30/06/2024 19:53

You need to have a word with David Tennant @ACarefulTraveller. Naughty David showing us all what labour really think of women of colour in power.

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:55

BionicBadger · 30/06/2024 19:53

You need to have a word with David Tennant @ACarefulTraveller. Naughty David showing us all what labour really think of women of colour in power.

David Tennant isn't a Labour candidate.

Farage stating that Andrew Tate is an important voice tells us what he thinks of women. Handy to know that a party leader endorses the most virulent voice of misogyny around right now.

1dayatatime · 30/06/2024 19:55

@ACarefulTraveller

"I've lost track of how many times on this thread I've discussed that Starmer was elected as leader of the Labour Party with a vow to purge antisemitism from the ranks. Under his leadership, Labour has changed. He has expelled antisemites. He has changed the party. I can't keep repeating it, I've typed the same thing over and over!"

And yet I believe that racists and anti semites don't change their views. Just as despite deselecting three Reform candidates for racists views I believe that there are many others in Reform who still have racist views - they just hide them better.

I also believe that despite Labour expelling anti semites that there are many others in Labour who still have anti semetic views - they just hide them better.

VelvetBow · 30/06/2024 19:56

I don't believe they are all racists. It's not racist to want to enforce borders, know who's emigrating legally to the country and know who's seeking asylum?

I'm not voting for them but still. Nuance.

AmusedMaker · 30/06/2024 19:57

I don’t care how anyone votes in this election - all parties are totally legitimate so none of my business.
But op, if I were you I’d be more concerned about how people are voting in France, our nearest European neighbour.

BionicBadger · 30/06/2024 19:58

Andrew Tate isn’t a candidate either @ACarefulTraveller. Nice defence of Tennant though, well done you

1dayatatime · 30/06/2024 19:58

@ACarefulTraveller

"Well, there haven't been any Labour candidates this week discovered to have said antisemitic things unlike in Reform where three just this week had to be dropped for their comments on black people and an expressed wish of violence against asylum seekers. So it seems pretty clear that Labour are doing a better job"

Well I am sure that if C4 did an undercover job in certain Labour constituencies then they would equally find campaigners with anti semetic views. Except C4 wouldn't want to do that would they?

WormBum · 30/06/2024 19:58

TwigletsAndRadishes · 30/06/2024 18:46

The Reform party is pretty new. Do you think that before it existed, those racist and xenophobic people didn't exist in number in the UK? Do you think they've been rattling around for the last fifty years voting for no-one? Or do you think at some point they might have supported one or other of the mainstream parties? It's pretty naive to assume there are no racists in any other parties but Reform.

It's just that a certain section of the media goes to enormous lengths to discredit Reform (and the Tories) by doing everything it can to find, encourage and then record the worst behaviour from the worst pondlife among their supporters or their candidates and use that as evidence for the whole party being rotten and borderline fascist. It was the same with Brexit. A cynical, concerted policy of filtering out the voices of anyone articulate, intelligent, measured and moderate, to give the impression that they literally didn't exist, in favour of putting the knuckle draggers and the thickos front and centre every single time.

The simple fact is that Reform doesn't even meet the criteria to be considered a 'far right' party, let alone as a Fascist one. Compare them to the past history of the National Rally in France, for example and there is no comparison. Yet millions of disillusioned French people will be voting for the NR today, not because they are all racists, but because they are ordinary working people who for one reason or another feel let down by Macron, the metropolitan elite and the EU. This parliamentary election is France's Brexit moment. Leaving the EU for us was hard enough. It's much harder to do when you are in the Euro, so this is the French people sending a message that while they may not be leaving any time soon, they won't continue to kowtow to the EU's every demand either.

It's funny because when the Brexit debate was going on, all the Remainers were saying 'look we know it's not always perfect but we can't change it if we aren't in it. We should stay in and campaign to change things from inside.' (like no-one had already thought of trying that, and banged their head against the wall, so given up. )

Now, I notice that people are saying of Marine Le Pen 'Watch her, she's dangerous. She's dropped Frexit from her manifesto but she's still massively EU-sceptic and she'll just try to destroy it from the inside.'

So if people are aggrieved and feel ill-served by aspects of EU membership, what exactly is an acceptable way to challenge it? Clearly, if you are asking the evangelical disciples of Brussels, there isn't one.

So will the racist thugs in France be voting for the NR? Of course they will. But they won't be the only people voting for them. Not by a very long shot. This is the direct consequence of arrogant people at the top consistently and repeatedly not listening to the valid concerns of the 'little people' they lord it over. It's potentially dangerous and worrying for France of course, but it's too late to hand wring over that now. The peasants are revolting and the French elite can't say they weren't warned. Same in Germany, the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe.

So back to Reform, look, people who are racist are going to vote for someone, so it stands to reason that they will vote for the party which promises to be most hardline on immigration, because racists don't tend to like immigration. But frankly, lots of people are uncomfortable with the unprecedented levels of immigration in recent years (and its very obvious consequences) including plenty of people who are of immigrant heritage themselves. To be concerned about immigration (both legal and illegal) is not racist in and of itself.

One of the biggest reasons to vote for Reform in my opinion is that they seem to genuinely understand and acknowledge the truth of exactly what's required to sort out the NHS and to retain our doctors and nurses. No-one else seems to have a clue.

Edited

Excellent post.

Brexit could have served as a warning as to how the voting population were/are feeling.
Not exploring this and making changes back then to attempt to fix those problems was a big mistake that has led to people using their right to vote in a way that the left doesn’t approve of.

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 19:59

1dayatatime · 30/06/2024 19:55

@ACarefulTraveller

"I've lost track of how many times on this thread I've discussed that Starmer was elected as leader of the Labour Party with a vow to purge antisemitism from the ranks. Under his leadership, Labour has changed. He has expelled antisemites. He has changed the party. I can't keep repeating it, I've typed the same thing over and over!"

And yet I believe that racists and anti semites don't change their views. Just as despite deselecting three Reform candidates for racists views I believe that there are many others in Reform who still have racist views - they just hide them better.

I also believe that despite Labour expelling anti semites that there are many others in Labour who still have anti semetic views - they just hide them better.

I think Labour have more robust processes in place to deal with antisemitism than Reform do to deal with racism. And so Reform will continue to attract racists.

I can't spend more of my Sunday evening arguing, it's too depressing.

The racist comments - and misogynistic and homophobic ones - to emerge from Reform during this campaign are extreme and shocking. People defending them is beyond me. But I just can’t keep going.

Hatfullofwillow · 30/06/2024 19:59

TinklySnail · 30/06/2024 17:52

Asking Enoch Powell to back UKIP? Was UKIP a thing in his lifetime?

Yep. It was in 1994, Powell died in 1998. Powell declined to endorse them.

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 20:00

1dayatatime · 30/06/2024 19:58

@ACarefulTraveller

"Well, there haven't been any Labour candidates this week discovered to have said antisemitic things unlike in Reform where three just this week had to be dropped for their comments on black people and an expressed wish of violence against asylum seekers. So it seems pretty clear that Labour are doing a better job"

Well I am sure that if C4 did an undercover job in certain Labour constituencies then they would equally find campaigners with anti semetic views. Except C4 wouldn't want to do that would they?

Those three candidates weren't exposed by Channel 4. You're getting your Reform scandals mixed up.

OK, goodnight!

ACarefulTraveller · 30/06/2024 20:01

BionicBadger · 30/06/2024 19:58

Andrew Tate isn’t a candidate either @ACarefulTraveller. Nice defence of Tennant though, well done you

No but Farage is the Reform leader. So it matters more what he says in terms of what that tells us about Reform than what Tennant says tells us about Labour. No, I really am going now, I promise.