Who can best hold a Labour government to account?

[verdantverdure]

Just that really.

Which party do you think needs to get enough seats be in opposition and hold a Labour government to account?

@verdantverdure A your Tory hating ones! Most of this hate is simplistic and not called for. I’m not going to list decent MPs but I hear them on select committees, on the radio and some write sensible newspaper articles. It’s not an evil force. Some are poor but it happens. Most political parties have people in them who shouldn’t be. Even a Labour one bet against himself.

However there are decent Conservative MPs who work hard in their constituencies and fly under the radar. It’s unlikely you know who they are to demonize them. If you want a one party state, then you are very foolish. It’s poor for our Democracy to have a fractured , and therefore weak, opposition.

This is your opportunity to advertise the decent Tory MPs. The corrupt ones get all the headlines. It's your chance to promote the good ones that we don't hear about.

Can you name some of them @TizerorFizz? There used to be decent Tories but if there are any left after Johnson’s cull they’re maintaining a very low profile.

However there are decent Conservative MPs

I would love a list of them.

I don't agree with a lot of his politics but Ranil Jayawardena is a decent guy and very hardworking.

In general though, isn't it a bit dumb to label people as either goodies or baddies?

I can think of lots of Tory MPs I disagree with about many things whilst recognising that they have some some excellent work in certain areas.

I've been very impressed with Victoria Atkins recently (in the wake of the Cass report).

Which post of mine are you replying to with this?

I've just done some tech support for older family members in his constituency. The local Facebook group posts were about a Traveller gang doing a crime spree in the town centre, trying to find an NHS dentist, trying to find work for a school leaver who didn't get into college and there aren't any apprenticeships, and Lidl coming to town. He didn't rate a mention.

Is he a good enough MP that people would vote for him if he switched to another party or stood as an independent?

Or is it the sort of place where they would vote for a stick insect if it was wearing a Tory rosette?

Why this childish demand for lists? Grow up, Any reasonable person knows that most MPs are decent people but don’t have identical politics. Demonising everyone is stupid.

Stupid is definitely the word.

Ah, the political left. Where it's fashionable to strenuously deny that humans can be neatly categorised into male or female, whilst insisting that they can be categorised into goodies and baddies.

That's a left idea is it? Better tell Mordaunt. She'll be delighted.

I’d actually really like to see Ed Davey as Leader of the opposition. Despite what the polls say, I still think a conservative leader of the Opposition is more likely than a third party.

I really hope that whoever it is, we see a return to grown up, respectful politics and opposition. I don’t think opposition should be about being the “thorn in the side” and criticising everything the government does. I think it should be about constructive criticism and respectful disagreement.

It’s really sad that we seem to have moved so far from respectful disagreement in politics. I was thinking earlier this week about the 2008 US presidential election and how sad it that just 16 years later, it feels impossible that we can get back to a place where a candidate would defend their opponent in the way McCain did. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17782572/john-mccain-barack-obama-statement-2008-video

It's a dumb idea, mainly, but obviously far more prevalent on the left than on the right.

"Women have penises" in government and "women have penises" in opposition would be the worst possible result for women.

And Caroline Nokes and Maria Caulfield.

I'm interested in what it would do to the Tory party if Lib Dem end up in opposition to a Labour government. The Tories have fractured and splintered so badly, tearing themselves apart over Brexit and how will they know whether they need to move centre or far-right? On the one hand, they're so afraid of Reform and want to pander to that vote, but the Lib Dems are opposite to Reform on immigration, health care, the economy - and if the country chooses Labour and Lib Dem as the two main parties then which way will the Tories fall when they try to reshape themselves after the election?

The future of the Tory party depends on which MPs survive the cull on Thursday. I wouldn’t even venture to guess right now. It’ll be fascinated watching it unfold over the coming months.

I feel the same way @Takoneko

The bad faith and bad manners types leave me cold.

If I watched one of those Stsrmer/Sunak debates knowing nothing about policy or records in office I'd be turned off by Sunak's shoutiy ill-mannered interruptions and once it became clear that what he was saying wasn't true then I'd know the Tories were not the party for people who like me with quite traditional values.

Party of less than 75 seats by the weekend 🤞 Fingers crossed.

I think we can do without them.

They've consistently moved towards more of a US Republican way of doing things and we don't need that.

And Alicia Kearns and Steve Baker. Steve Baker is another TRA who's declared he'll stand for Tory leadership when Sunak gets sunk.

I doubt he’ll get the chance. He’s pretty much guaranteed to lose his seat.

Still feel the Lib Dems would be better as the opposition, scrutiny not just nasty comments.

There’s plenty of reasons to think Labour would have splintered over Brexit too. They just sat tight and went along with it. Why? They wanted the red wall back! No backbone and no conviction at all. They will have 5 years to start getting closer to the EU but don’t expect Reform voters to like any cosying up to the EU, even when the benefits are obvious. Those in very Brexit areas who have suffered most because of Brexit won’t see it that way. Labour only care about winning so need these seats. Entrenched anti EU views won’t go away and neither will the far right.

We have around 1/4 of Tory MPs who are too far right. They are the tail that wags the dog. Moggy, Braverman, Patel, etc. Sunak only has Rwanda to shut them up. The Cons should be centre right but we now have a lot of right leaning voters who don’t want immigration, closer ties with Europe and are probably closet racists. Reform gives them a home. The Cons should not. They really cannot accommodate Reform or their centre right voters will have no party to vote for at all.

@LlynTegid Scrutiny is not just in HofC. It’s select committees, legislation committee stage, intelligent articles and it’s speaking out about the government doing what it should not. This could be not having debates in parliament, announcing policy in a press conference or party conference, listening to cronies who bankroll the party (yes Labour has them), not sticking to legislative convention, criticizing the courts, and much more. A huge majority can allow circumventing of procedures so scrutiny is minuscule. Labour will need to agree to scrutiny.

Labour aren’t saying what they really will do about a lot of things. We don’t know how change will come about. We have outline ideas of goals and sums that don’t add up. The electorate can scrutinize very little because they won’t answer direct questions. They just parrot the party line. It’s poor but could be much worse when they are a government.