Labour Party and gender

[Mobley52]

I've seen quite a few threads where people have said they would not vote for Labour because of their stance on gender.

Would somebody be able to explain in simple terms why this is please

Many thanks

Its not as if anyone goes to the doctors with a headache, and then along the line get a surprising diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

Those self identifying as trans will request a diagnosis of GD if that is what is needed to get treatment or a GRC.

They were giving children PB without knowing for sure, so why we are pretending that diagnosis in adults is meaningful, i don't know.

Labour created the problematic legislation. We would have no rights left by now had they been in power for the last 14 years. None. But hey ho - now they can finish the job.

😂🙄
You have no idea about that at all.
The Conservatives didn't repeal it, in fact they tried to introduce self-ID instead. It's only recently when they could sniff some votes that they have changed tack.

Exactly

It's only recently when they could sniff some votes that they have changed tack. Good. It's reading the room, taking note of those they would represent and the Cass report.

😂
As if! It's throwing out sound bites and hoping it keeps the wool pulled over people's eyes long enough to gain their vote.

Just listen to what Badenoch actually proposed (after 15 months of "mulling") vs what she says. "Legal women" and businesses get to choose whether to apply single sex exemptions on their services for women. So really a minimal change. Yet we are meant to take it seriously they are going to protect single sex spaces?

Meanwhile they have no plan to address the fact rape is effectively decriminalised. Oh no, tell a lie, Chris Philp said they will allow video evidence. Great.

Vote Conservative for womens rights? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it 😂

I’d prefer the EqA to change to biological sex which Labour won’t do

They are struggling to provide clarity because the statement they used contradicts Phillipson on men with GRCs

I think the problem here is that while the tories are not great Labour could obliterate womens rights to any single sex provision within a parliament .

It is also the environment of impunity, if the government is saying transwomen are women and should be allowed to use the womens loos then how do normal women know if it’s ok or not that theres a naked man in the changing room women with them.

We’ve already created an environment where it’s seen as pretty impossible to complain about men in womens spaces. Clarifying that “gender” means “sex” is actually extremely important for women, even if it’s a difficult road it must be won to safeguard women.

Under the Conservatives there could be a naked man in the changing room too 🙈
I totally get why people are annoyed with the options here (basically the only option is reform), the bit I don't get is why someone would think the Tories are the answer. They are a bunch of lying law breakers. It's strange logic to believe them on this.

Even more so if you watched Badenoch on the media round when it was announced, looking nervous and talking a lot about trans inclusion and businesses rights to choose. She clearly knows a proper "single sex spaces" policy would be unacceptable and is attempting a fudge.

I've basically discounted this as a voting issue, as all options are shit, and am voting on other women's rights issues instead. Primarily ending the effective decriminalisation of rape.

I understand what you are saying but the clarification is important for businesses and providers to support a stance of curbing access to transwomen. I agree it won’t solve the problem entirely.

To me, this is an enormous voting issue.

Labour are making it extremely clear via several aspects here: in their view men matter in ways that women don't, and they agree that women are resources for male use and should not be able to refuse consent to this. When you ask about women's rights, you're told about male needs, feelings, and how sad it is for them (that women should have inconvenient rights, blocking male freedom to use them.)

I don't want to vote for a male supremacist society thanks.

They are refusing to be clear and straight forward on this: they are lying and fluffing and obfusticating (or the brighter ones are, others are just plain stating that women and their needs and voices don't matter)

I don't want to vote for liars who have not got the courage to tell the public what they stand for and what they will do in power.

I do not want to vote for a party that talks about how proud they are of being multi cultural, the friend of the disabled and the LGB person, their religious tolerance, their care for those in poverty or escaping abuse - and then makes it clear that should those people they 'care' about be women, and those cultures, needs, faiths, disabilities etc be getting in the way of a man's self expressive freedom, their protected characteristics are now irrelevant and wrong.

I do not want to vote for a party in hock to extremist activists in the way that Labour was once controlled by the potty end of unions and pottier unionists.

I do not want to vote for a party that believes in identified realities trumping facts, and does not have the courage to face reality. And seeks to legally punish those who do not submit to and embrace the reality they are told to. I mean, who would? How dangerous can you get?

There is no party, at all, that I wish to vote for. But Labour in their current incarnation are dangerous.

We need to lessen the legal grip TRAs have over businesses so the threat of legal challenge reduces

It won’t be the case with Labour as no amendments to the EqA

Businesses go with their bottom line.
Places like John Lewis aren't supporting trans rights on the basis of how much they "believe in it". They are doing it because it makes financial sense for them.

It's one of the perils of the free market. What individuals think is "right" isn't necessarily what the market supports.

Here:
https://www.marketing-beat.co.uk/2024/06/25/pride-grocery-retailers-pride/

Discounter Aldi is launching a series of gender transition guides to support colleagues who have already transitioned as well as their direct leaders and co-workers.
It has also rolled out gender-neutral toilets across all of its regional offices and regional distribution centres. In addition, it will be supporting and attending several Pride parade events across the country this year, including Cardiff, Glasgow and Birmingham.

Places like John Lewis aren't supporting trans rights on the basis of how much they "believe in it". They are doing it because it makes financial sense for them.

I think it's less about the money it brings in, and more about preventing financial losses from people threatening to cancel them because they don't want to deal with protests and boycotts.

There’s no money in it but there is legal threat which obviously businesses want to avoid.

Get rid of that and we’ll start to see women’s purchasing power have more weight

Where i'm confused is that when it's come to court, every single legal challenge has failed, citing the intricacies of the EA. So was Starmer right when he said last night that he doesn't need to make changes to it because it's already working as intended?

Which cases in particular are you thinking of?

I thought there were a few cases where a social worker was sacked for being GC, but that was ruled unfair dismissal due to it being a protected characteristic?

I'm not as knowledgeable as others about the ins and outs of the whole topic, I only dip in here and there.

I don’t think there is a case re a man with a GRC and a business yet

But on this relying on this type of litigation it is incredibly costly and businesses are too risk averse to try and change the gender landscape that way.

They need legislative change.

OK, yeah, I see your point.

honestly, i'm just sick of hearing of the whole bloody thing! Its such a tiny minority that I don't understand how its become such a hot topic - especially when usually, public opinion is led by mainstream media, but even publications like The Sun and the DM, and even the Times are heavily GC, that I genuinely can't work out how its come to this.

We need a government that's not governed by vicious attitudes on social media. Look back to the lockdowns - I'm convinced if so many people weren't being to vile on sm, calling for longer lockdowns, calling for tighter restrictions, even calling for the schools to close, things would have been much different

I absolutely concur on lockdowns and said as much at the time, which went down as well as you could expect

I also agree this is a minority. Unfortunately GRA legislation underpins everything which then impacts women and children generally

I think it’s good women are getting politicians to change, some anyway

Did you read about the "pink pound"? There's lots of money in it.
It's also by no means a fair assessment that "most women" are GC and will increasingly shop at JL if it took a different stance on trans inclusion. Who do you think they are worried about "boycotting"? I don't think men are the core JL customer base

Trans is too small to convert to pounds but risk of litigation is massive and will be avoided by businesses for obvious reasons.

On that note Starmer drawing on the refuge example is problematic.

I believe there’s a court case coming up for refuges but that does not give confidence to a clothing store or gym. What is proportionate for a refuge can still result in financial damage to a business.

That he is using it shows a lack of understanding. Which is odd really given his last job

Surely there are so many more threats to women and children than trans ideology. Like poverty, we know it disproportionately affects women and children so why don't we focus on that? Oh because it's actually nothing to do with the safety of women and children just bigoted nonsense.