The Party of Women

[ThinWomansBrain]

If you have a representative of "The Party of Women" standing in your constituency, give them a wide birth.
I had the misfortune to encounter a representative at the local hustings this afternoon. I'm about to put in a complaint to the police - several were present, but did nothing to intervene and stop the transphobic hate speech.
I's outrageous that they should be allowed to call themselves "The Party of Women" (presumably hoping to pick up votes by misleading people unto thinking they're The Women's Equality Party") they certainly don't speak for me.

This is the first thing in ages that I've seen as a potential red flag against PR.

Yes, as I said, the former is very likely to be protected.

But even then it is still context specific.

If one employee repeated this statement as a mantra 10 times a day each time they saw a trans employee, and then emailed that statement to the trans employee every morning, and repetitively posted the statement on an official work group chat that they were both on, alongside 20 others colleagues....well that might constitute harassment and their expression may be unlikely to be protected.

Despite your attempts at condescension I do of course understand that distinction.

What I do not distinguish between is the (I’m)morality of trying to destroy someone’s livelihood because they hold GC beliefs and attempting to destroy someone’s livelihood because they have a trans identity. Unlike you, I am comfortable in condemning both, which I have, even though it meant criticising those on this thread on my side.

You however, are clearly deeply discomfited by condemning harassment carried out by your side, and deeply discomfited by standing up for those not on ‘your side’, and that’s why you have had to try to use the diversion tactic of pretending this is a debate about belief vs the protected character of a person, when really it’s about the (Im)morality of harassing someone out of a livelihood.

I realise you can’t face up to that being the real issue as it would bring you to a place of principle not partisanship, but there we go.

This is all silly.
Yes the PC of belief doesn't let you harass people. That's pretty obvious.
The PC of sexuality doesn't let you lick your same sex boss's face and the PC of disability doesn't let you ram people with your electric wheelchair either.

I am happy condemning harassment from any sides over anything, thanks.

You seem to be forgetting that it is not me that has used any diversion tactics, I have not changed any directions. The thread started by asking people to be wary of The Party of Woman, and I asked if this was because Kellie-Jay Keen has been advising employers and landlords to discriminate against trans people on the basis of their trans status (which she has, go watch the video clip I posted). You or others have diverted it into an issue over harassment over beliefs and I have responded to considerations as they come up.

The former is protected. Not "likely to be", it actually is.

Anyone being a PITA with their opinions is of course at risk of censure, whatever those opinions are.

@suggestionsplease1
Asked if this was because Kellie-Jay Keen has been advising employers and landlords to discriminate against trans people on the basis of their trans status (which she has, go watch the video clip I posted).

Hmm no. In the clip you posted she seems to be saying people should be allowed to, i.e. the law should change, not that people should break the law. I don't actually agree with her on that. I'm sure she doesn't care what I think but I would guess that from the years of abuse and harassment she has faced, she's lost sight of the fact that although most of the trans people she encounters are absolute dicks, they aren't all like that.

No, she advises, I used that term accurately.

Here's a quote from the clip "I would advise you to also not employ anybody who claims to have body dysmorphia so much so that they've cut their own breasts off, because I don't know anybody who works with somebody who calls themselves trans who doesn't find that person lazy, entitled and difficult to work with"

She is advocating for discrimination against and prejudicial treatment of trans people.

I am happy condemning harassment from any sides over anything, thanks

And yet you haven’t. And when you had the opportunity when a PP talked of the hypocrisy of condemning KJK for saying things your side have actually done and still are doing, instead of saying, ‘Yes I condemn that too’, you instead chose to write a post which was rather clearly arguing that the harassment of GC women out of jobs was not nearly so bad as harassing trans people out of jobs as GC women have said bad things. You have continued to go deeper and deeper down this rabbit hole., posting ever more ludicrous made up situations of your imagining, which are not even happening. Whilst ignoring all the actual cases of harassment out of employment that actually gave and are happening to GC women.

So sorry, whilst you words above claim you are happy to condemn harassment from with side, in practice your behaviour has proved the very opposite

I can't believe how much people stick up for her when she said this! It is shocking, yet somehow deflection, diversion amd distraction seem to be other of the day to pretend she didn't.

saying things your side have actually done and still are doing
I'm not sure what this means but one can condemn KJKs words and actions without taking "sides".

🙄 I have given context to scenarios.

I'm not here to be coerced into your mouthpiece, apologies that is so difficult for you to deal with.

Meant to quote this obviously.

Ok yes you're right on that one, she did switch from "you should be allowed to...", "to I'd advise you to..". Which I agree with even less. But still, even then it only puts her on a par with an average TRA, or an organisation like stonewall*, and they've managed to convince people they are somehow respectable.

*Allegedly.

Can you find a place where stonewall have called any group of people lazy, entitled and difficult to work with, and advised people not to employ them?

Not for those reasons, but Allison Bailey's case springs to mind.

Yes I was thinking of Alison Bailey as a specific case. And more generally anyone with GC views.

I think GC women have been treated appallingly by some employers. That's not the same as someone in the political eye advising not to employ GC women because they are entitled and lazy.

Although I believe a reform candidate called women "spongers" so I guess that's close 😂

I think GC women have been treated appallingly by some employers.
.. due to an attitude that is reinforced by mainstream politicians in most parties, but particularly Labour, Greens, libdems & SNP.

You didn’t bother reading the rest of the post then? You could also remove GC and that statement would be correct.

Huh?
If I removed GC from my statement, it would be making a completely different and weird point. If I removed GC from Cassie's statement then I'd be misquoting her. So I'm not sure what you mean by any of that.

I meant if GC was removed from Cassie’s statement. Apologies for not being crystal clear. Incidentally your post didn’t include “GC”.

No, due to their own internal policies and processes. Which incidentally Conservatives are not going to do anything about.

Regardless, noone in the political eye has referred to GC women in the way KJK referred to trans women. It was disgusting and its very telling that most of the FWR crowd have either gone completely quiet about it or are trying to distract like this.

Also telling JKR is recommending voting for the communist party. But then again JKR seems to line up with Rosie Duffield and the "soc fems".

My opinion remains that Kellie Jay Keen is a clickbait grifter like Katie Hopkins/Jack Monroe and PoW has been set up to manufacture conflict for her youtube channel. I've seen nothing at all to suggest she's interested in campaigning in the constituency she's standing in, and the OPs account is hardly a ringing endorsement.
A year ago I was giving her the benefit of the doubt but having looked into her due to the assertions of FWR that she's being smeared, I can't stand her now and think she's doing a lot of damage to the GC movement.

@CassieMaddox

No, due to their own internal policies and processes.
Come on now. If a right wing politician says something inflammatory, you'd the first one to claim that could influence people to act on whatever prejudice they shared. In this case it's seems beyond question that derision for GC women coming from senior politicians helps create an environment where employers feel that discriminating against GC views is not just legal but desirable.

Regardless, noone in the political eye has referred to GC women in the way KJK referred to trans women.
Come on now again. How about Nicola Sturgeon randomly throwing in that a lot of them were racist? KJK is an influencer who has been in politics a couple of months, you can expect her to be unpolished and undiplomatic. Sturgeon was an experienced politician running a country FGS.
Or then, there was the last set of Labour leadership candidates signing the pledge calling WPUK a hate group. These are all people who should know better.

Also telling JKR is recommending voting for the communist party. But then again JKR seems to line up with Rosie Duffield and the "soc fems".
That's great. There's room for both in the world. I could vote for either the communist party or POW if I had the chance.

The part you're probably right about is that I shouldn't try and defend a crappy statement. I don't agree with what she said. But I still like her, and I hope the people around her help her avoid alienating her mainstream GC supporters.

Sure. But Stonewall aren't "left wing politicians". And I don't thing that many left wing politicians have said anything that inflammatory. With the possible exceptions of Crispin Blunt and Lloyd Russell-Moyle, who are both wrong uns.

Regarding Sturgeon m, I was shocked when she said that but I'm less so now since the whole Tommy Robinson fandango. I can see where she's coming from and it's partly why I get so frustrated with the way KJK and some of her followers carry on. It just leaves the door wide open to criticism. Which as a GC feminist infuriates me because I don't want to be tarred with that same brush.

The WPUK thing was outrageous. And I'm not very happy with Labour about their latest statements either