Voting for Reform

[Behappyandbehave]

Would this be such a bad idea? I hate labour and tories. But I don't know enough about Reform.

Exactly. Immigration is possible to control. We just have governments that refuse to accept the task because they prefer to pretend that there will be no effect on the economy or that employers will have to look at better wages.

I will not vote Reform. But I get that people are angry about migration because the debate is a lie. Asylum seekers are visible but marginal. It is our own system that allows the current levels. It always has been!

This! It is our system and our choices. No one else is responsible. This is the great joke of Brexit. The UK has created a system which is more open, which offers more incentive for migrants to stay. If I had been a leave voter and voted Conservative on the basis of immigration I would be furious because effectively I would have been given precisely the opposite of what was wanted. There are other implications on “multicultural” UK which would suggest the UK is becoming more diverse than before Brexit happened. It is a perverse outcome.

Do you have a point where trafficking across the channel feels too high? Some won’t mind going high but I think many do

something which Labour promises, btw

Why do you trust Labour’s approach to ‘smash the gangs’ and why given the billions spent on this issue do you think he’s alone in thinking he can get in a room and catch people.

Why is Macron not looking at that solution - or Aus, US, other EU countries if it’s that doable?

And a BBC podcast might make other traffickers a bit less blasé
I mean he was interviewed wasn’t he? Hardly trying to cover tracks, I assume others will not be so cavalier

A podcast and one person, what’s stopping the next trafficker taking their place?

How many money obsessed ruthless traffickers do you think exist?

1 boat trafficking people is one too many

Safe routes will reduce the trafficking

No one is offering just safe routes for a reason

Not even Starmer or EU

Aren't they?

The UK used to.

No and it’s not going to get more likely

Starmer’s solution is to ‘smash the gangs’ which won’t do anything

EU is paying various countries billions to help suppress flow of people and still far right gains ground so that may shift to more hardline

You can have a few routes set up as we already do (60k per year on average) but it doesn’t stop trafficking

Whatever people are asking for it needs to be realistic unless laws change that’s not the case

To add if you want zero boats Aus and Albania returns of all people are closest

I didn't say it will stop the trafficking, I said it will reduce the trafficking

You want an Australia style system, so where would you detain the refugees?

The point form the podcast is that there is still a lot that can be done when it comes to stopping these crossings (and they're dangerous, so just for that at least, I'd like unscrupulous traffickers to be stopped). Intelligence doesn't seem to be Farages main priority, he seems to talk mainly about numbers and sending people back or processing them wherever.
That podcast was amazing, and the previous one where they found where the boats came from - they are ordered from China, and the safety notices on them are erased and replaced in Turkey, before they're sent to smugglers in the EU.
Why was it BBC journalists that had to make these discoveries, and that ended up tracking that major trafficker? You'd think there would me more funds going into intelligence - there isn't. There are still legal things to sort out, like when does it become legitimate to investigate people for ordering boats etc... Across different EU countries with different rules... A lot of work still to be done, which in the end could have results. I don't know why it's not currently happening 🤷‍♀️Tory incompetence?

Yes, of course there are safe legal routes, some people are picked up from refugee camps every year, heading to the UK, with the help of the UN. A small number, of course.

Do you think the U.K. is the only country dealing with this. Have you looked at Med figures?

Macron is suffering career ending shift to far right, with the billions sent to Tunisia etc why doesn’t he just track some boats?

I did hear a good guy on this saying it’s wrong to call them smugglers. They are multi billion funded organisations with marketing and recruitment that are three layers deep with little knowledge between the people.

The UK wading in when the EU are already trying to crack down and believing we can clean up trafficking is a bit much

It won’t reduce trafficking you’ll just get both. We already do

Aus numbers are very low, I assume that’s why it’s bipartisan and Labor haven’t overturned policies

We’re a way off going by conversations although a Le Pen gov plus Starmer smash the gangs might change things

I agree that Labour's plan don't address the trafficking

But where do you suggest the UK will detain refugees in your preferred Australia style?

"The UK wading in when the EU are already trying to crack down and believing it due to a BBC podcast is a bit much" This is a thread about Reform and how they propose to deal with the boats crossing the Channel. I'm not talking about the Med. Why would "the EU" be tracking down the boats that are used specifically to cross the channel? The UK should take the lead on that and work out the legal details, instead of Farages preferred method of "turning boats back to France".

Because if it were a viable solution we wouldn’t see billions spent on other ways by all other countries dealing with this issue

Plus there is already collaboration to try to detain it doesn’t stop rising numbers

And to link back to Reform its rise is linked to inability in understanding what is realistic and what’s not

"Macron is suffering career ending shift to far right, with the billions sent to Tunisia etc why doesn’t he just track some boats? " Because 1/ refugees are not the main cause of the rise of the far-right in France and 2/ people come to France by land. The EU has a response to people coming by boat, which as far as I can hear, is not talked about in the French elections.

I disagree it’s not contributing, not sure how you got there. What is driving it in your view?

Also have you considered Italy

Boats and EU billions spent in other ways, why don’t they do as Starmer will attempt to do and track boats back to trafficking networks, clean it up and stop people movement?

Also do you think the EU is not already collaborating to do so and numbers are still rising

and those pesky Anglo-Saxons hey!

Macron is now warning of civil war, so that could be interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/emmanuel-macron-it-will-be-civil-war-if-far-left-or-far-right-win

Well if the boats come from Lybia, the EU is not going to go and investigate there are they. The UK can do investigations in the EU if it asks, which is where smuggling plans specifically to the UK are hatched - in that BBC podcast they found a major person in Germany - but the EU can hardly investigate in Africa.
Reasons for the far-right to do well in France: there isn't really a viable right-wing alternative anymore, the balance has tipped (the same could yet happen in the UK at some point), and people are "just" hating Muslims, most of whom are French, conflating the cost of living crisis, a rise in thefts (both issues exist in the UK but they seem to think France is uniquely broken)... with security and terrorism issues. I'd say these are the drivers. Immigration is talked about but not as much as "security", guaranteeing some food prices won't rise (🙄), cheaper utilities, etc

Wasn’t the BBC guy arrested in Iraq. So can we deal with traffickers there and places like Libya or not?

You’re going to have a problem with all the other traffickers outside the EU then and it won’t work.

I disagree on immigration going by articles covering far right rise, it’s cited as main cause for EU shift seems odd at this point to play it down.

Everyone going on about Net Zero and how important it is - stop buying endless crap from China! That would be a HUGE first step.

Here is another Reform candidate you can vote for

Reform candidate Leslie Lilley said he would ‘slaughter migrants’

https://www.thetimes.com/article/946817c9-7dde-430c-9516-52641607ddeb?shareToken=5d36aa96738c0845ca72863919457f6c

Jesus. 🤢

There's a new mrp poll which suggests that reform might claw 18 seats, such is their increasing popularity. With Lib Dems becoming the opposition with 71 seats, 11 more seats than the conservatives.

If we end up with a Labour government and a nodding dog of an opposition then I expect the next election cycle is going to see far more protest votes with reform, unless the Tories can hustle and rise from the ashes.