Women voting for Labour?

[bearsbritches]

To wonder why women would be voting for Labour when they support trans rights over women's rights? I am concerned we are going to descend even further into all of this 'woke' madness and it is women who bear the brunt.

Starmer has back peddled on the self ID policy all of a sudden before the election, shock, but we can't trust that.

I certainly won't be voting for the Tories and can't bring myself to vote Labour for many reasons. Where does that leave disillusioned voters?

@pointythings
Would they? A predatory man, presenting as a man? I very much doubt it.

You were just advocating for a system where no one is ever challenged entering single sex spaces. So yes if you had your way a predatory man (and these look the same as any other man) should be able to saunter into women's toilets or changing rooms unimpeded and pick victims at their leisure.

Oh I had not seen this. Thank you

Nope, I didn't say that. I said that people need to consider how they make those challenges so that violence can be avoided and so that gender non-conforming females can feel safe. Some GC people will need to think hard about how they handle those challenges so that they do not end up persecuting their own, i.e. actual biological females. Because right now, too many of them are getting it wrong. My DC hasn't just been challenged with aggression once, it's been several times over the last 3 years. It isn't acceptable.

Sounded a lot like you were saying men should never be challenged in women's spaces because mean GC women would inevitably do it horribly and to the wrong people.

Nope, I'm just saying that GC women need to proceed with caution and operate within the normal social norms of courtesy. Which at present they are failing to do, and it isn't good enough. It's vigilantism, and that never ends well for anyone. By all means challenge men - just don't go in guns blazing. You can always escalate if it turns out to be necessary. This really shouldn't be rocket science. It isn't even 'be kind' - it's just 'be civil'. That should always be the default first step.

I said we need to keep the rules on single sex spaces so that challenging was at least possible and that this was the lesser of 2 evils as opposed to abandoning all rules, and you disagreed with that. But glad to see you backtracking to a more reasonable position.

Quite, OP. The issue nicely summed up in this article..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/09/the-law-on-single-sex-spaces-is-a-mess-it-needs-fixing-not-political-point-scoring

Labour are getting away with this and it’s truly shocking.

‘It’s the women who* would *lose out that I thought of when trying to make sense of the unhinged reaction to Kemi Badenoch last week saying the Conservatives would clarify the law.

Lefty men with apparently zero understanding of the implications of this legal ambiguity jumped on the bandwagon to variously label as “ghastly” and a “transphobic crusade” the moderate proposal to clarify that the protected characteristic of sex in the Equality Act, refers to someone’s biological sex’

Challenging is possible. We don't have self ID.

Labour aren't in charge (yet) and Badenochs plan will achieve no real difference

@CassieMaddox

The article explains why KB’s plan would make a difference. A crucial difference to the safety and comfort of biological women.

Labour on the other hand, would make it much worse. By simplifying the process to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC).

Challenging is obviously possible right now. Next week if Labour go into enough detail in their manifesto, we might learn whether or not challenging men in women's spaces is going to become harder after July 4th.

It couldn’t be much harder. I would never challenge anyone for fear of having my lights punched out, regardless of what the law says. In practice I suspect most women wouldn’t.

I can't be bothered to get into it again, suffice to say that's your opinion not fact. My opinion is Labour and Tory policies are basically identical on this.

Here is Kemi explaining how there will be legal women and biological women under the new plan and how organisations can still choose to be fully trans inclusive if they want to

https://x.com/GMB/status/1797536066917765428/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1797536066917765428&currentTweetUser=GMB&currentTweet=1797536066917765428&currentTweetUser=GMB

@CassieMaddox

I can't be bothered to get into it again

Same

I can be bothered...
There will still be sugar after a sugar tax.
There will still be a housing shortage after a building initiative.
There will still be rich people avoiding tax after a clamp down on non dom loopholes.

So yes there would still be males who are legal women if the Tories implemented their plans, because undoing the GRA entirely would be legally almost impossible at this point. But just like it would be idiotic to say the above measures would make no difference because they can't eradicate their respective problems entirely, it's foolish to suggest amending the equality act to say that sex means biological sex won't limit the erosion of single sex spaces.

I think any woman who thinks Kemi is going to be the saviour of women's rights will be sorely mistaken. A swing to the right on social issues will not help women.
Labour's announcement on prioritising rape trials will have a much more positive impact.

When they find themselves on the Opposition benches they’ll have far bigger things to worry about. And Badenoch will have a leadership contest to divert her attention. The rape trial announcement shows Labour putting its money where its mouth is.

Yes the rape trial proposal is a great manifesto promise if they can pull it off. And I'm not going to be overly cynical about that, because no party has a perfect track record of achieving their manifesto promises, but I think showing intention and priorities goes a long way.

Still, it would be way better if they weren't jeopardising single sex spaces at the same time.

The conservatives have pledged in their manifesto to ban the teaching of harmful gender ideologies in schools. I also like their proposal to double the child benefit threshold.

Who is going to ensure that rape and other sex offences are prosecuted and not the current decriminalisation in practice? Not the Tories if their record is anything to go by.

I don’t think you can blame any Party for a lack of sex offences being prosecuted. If the police can’t find enough evidence they can’t prosecute.

They’ll have to give more priority in rape and assault cases because there will be more of those cases under Labour as they are not proposing to legalise safe spaces for women and protect the sex.
This is a poor policy to try to appease women.

Of course you can. The underfunding of the judicial system his to blame, not lack of evidence. It’s beyond me that there are still people making excuses for the Tories.

Why do so few rape cases go to court? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48095118

Here's the Conservative Party's manifesto section on women's rights and here's the Lib Dems:

awaiting Labour's with bated breath..

Neither of these are on women's rights, they're on gender.