How confident do you feel that the Tories will lose?

[pinklite]

Do you feel confident? Going off what I see on social media, there is no way that they don't lose by a massive majority.

However I worry that this is just a small snapshot of the public and is not an accurate representation.

It really wouldn't surprise me if we don't have a Labour majority.

What does everybody else think the result will be?

I don't think I said private education would be stopped, did I? HTH

It’s also worth pointing out in your other examples you pay taxes when you purchase them e.g:
holidays - flight taxes
Running a car - road tax, fuel duty
buying houses -stamp duty

No you said ‘So are we saying that anything a lot of the population can't afford should be stopped or discouraged?’
Holidays
Running a car
Buying a house

Thus inferring that private education is being stopped or discouraged through this policy.

As I pointed out you pay additional taxes on the private services you mentioned above and now you will when purchasing private education.

@herecomesthesun24 tbh I can't really get worked up about paying VAT on private education, other than it seems unfair that people who are already taxed to fund state education should be taxed again if they decide to make their own arrangements. However what I do object to is the unbridled 'that will show them' attitude by some posters who are apparently rubbing their hands together at the prospect of disrupting education and potential job losses. It's almost as if children in private school don't matter, and as I have already said, that does not feel 'caring left' to me

@Katypp Well we don’t get much say in where our tax goes do we? Other than hoping the Government spend it wisely, on things that matter to us. You could say the same about the NHS as most of us pay in more than we (thankfully) have to use but I don’t begrudge paying for NHS dentistry even though I don’t personally use it.

i do think there has been an enormous misuse of taxpayers money on HS2 - the track that will deliver nothing!

We are obviously interpreting people’s comments differently as I can’t see evidence of posters ‘rubbing their hands together’ about potential changes to children’s education or any job losses. You may not like people either supporting or being ambivalent towards the policy but there are very few convincing arguments people are putting forward about why VAT shouldn’t be added to private education.

So what is it then? Are state schools closing and disappearing but at the same time private school teachers would have a lot of work in state schools ( I do not see many signing for this) These people have an answer for everything but contradict themselves with each answer. I smell a big rat 🤣can’t wait when they ask the questions to KS and whoever is showing their face because some are very quiet 🤫

The latest figures showw yet another failure to meet teacher recruitment targets in England. In eight of the past nine years there have been too few peoplee entering the teaching profession in the UK. In 2023-24, only half of the targeted secondary trainee teacher places have been filled.
Current indications show that the government needs over 13,000 more secondary teachers to meet the 2023-24 teacher recruitment target – not to mention the hangover caused by previous years’ shortfall. And, of course, the shortage of teachers is being felt by schools.

theconversation.com/teacher-apprenticeships-may-encourage-more-people-into-the-profession-but-greater-change-is-needed-to-get-them-to-stay-216218

I suspect that people may be short of sympathy for people saying Won't somebody think of the children when their children might have their education disrupted by moving school but those same people didn't give a shiny shit about state schools and the disruption kids in those schools have been dealing with (no teacher, subjects cut, GCSE and A-levels cancelled, buildings falling down).

This discussion is really bogged down in the VAT on private education. @Katypp you pay VAT on car purchases, on holidays, on solicitors conveyancing for buying a new house. Goods and services have VAT. The schools will be charged VAT. They can choose not to pass on the entire bill. But they won't.
For people like me who have seen Labour governments and their benefit for children, education, health and public services I will vote for them because I have seen the massive deterioration in all of those services under the Tories. There are individual Tory MPs I respect but their policies have been disastrous. People are forgetting Osborne and austerity years. Sunak trying to keep businesses open despite knowing that Covid was dangerous. The parties.
The worst aspect for me is the millions they and their friends made out of covid. The unusable equipment, the lack of preparedness-don't forget the Tories had abandoned keeping all the protection equipment up to date and ignored the outcomes of Exercise Cygnus in 2016 that mimicked events under a pandemic. They totally ignored local public health organisations that had the knowledge and the links to help and created their own quangoes of cronies to filter the money.
It was all an unforgivable mess.

Also, if you vote Tory, you're saying that you still don't give a shit about them and are quite happy for that terrible state of affairs to continue.

I’ve always been very open about my voting - I have voted Labour before, have voted mostly Conservative since. I’m genuinely on the fence this time and will consider who is least worst, but if I vote Conservative again (more likely than Labour) I’ll have no qualms telling mumsnet.

But I find it quite hilarious that some on this thread are incredulous that some people aren’t going to vote for the idiot Starmer and his tribe and would admit voting Conservative.

No not really, we’re saying that we don’t believe Labour will make it any better.

I think the Conservatives are the least worst of a dreadful bunch of incompetent liars. That’s not the same as thinking that they are good.

I hear this a lot....

If you had an unreliable Ford Focus, would you stick with it, even it costs you 1000s in repairs, breaks down etc because "all cars are unreliable" or would you try another make?

No one knows if Labour will improve things, the economic outlook is very grim.

But i think we should give them a chance, the Tories have had 14 years to improve things but nothing, not one thing is better than in 2010.

not one thing is better than in 2010.

Just about everything’s worse.

I’m sure the Tories will make it worse. But they’re not going to get in. They’re all jumping ship, they know the writing is on the wall.

Labour at least don’t seem to actively despise the public sector.

Also, one key aspect for next government is immigration in masses. Tories have been hopeless but at least they have tried. Always stopped and vilified. The situation would be like Biden in the US and the border but we are a tiny place with overwhelmed services. You can invest more but you would never catch up if you have people coming in thousands daily. We are expecting Africa and Middle East ( they all love large families) get much worst with climate change moving to Europe. Other countries in Europe are now seriously looking into this and we are still not being honest about this situation. The same people who moaned about the NHS and schools call for open boarders and use the racist word to stop debate. . It is nonsensical and self destructive.

It isn’t nonsensical at all. The reason our services are overwhelmed is because we have an ageing and sick population. Allowing immigration by young, fit, healthy people will improve the situation. Immigration tends to be beneficial in terms of tax revenue too.

@BIossomtoes yes, you read this in the conversation. Right? My god this is so fucking scary. The fit and healthy from countries were they do not even have water and are at war and we are sending money to help. Yeah right they are fit and healthy.

Overpopulation brings poverty and diseases. I guess next is euthanasia for the elderly to make room for the fit and healthy that are coming to save us.

How on earth can you say the Tories have tried???

They have allowed migration to reach 764,000 per year and its barely fallen.

...but not only that, its the countries they are taking migrants from, far east/africa/asia, countries where you cannot pop home for the weekend to see the family... so guess what? we allow in 2x as many dependants than workers.

Previously, we had migrants from the EU .... now what Tory caused decision messed that up?

imho if we had a better health service, better pay for care workers, less ageism and far more preventative healthcare (and responsibility by ourselves) we wouldn't need so many migrants

@Alexandra2001 actually you are right they should have been truly conservatives and avoid the invasion but with Labour this would be much worse. Happy to revise this in a couple of years because they are not in yet.

The people in this country should have some responsibility and stop the bullshit of relying on immigrants for jobs they can be arsed. Stop depending on the welfare to avoid working.

I've just been reading that 100 Labour MPs stepped down in 2010. Of course six Labour MPs had a good excuse - they were being investigated for fraud (five later went to prison, the sixth was given a psychiatric supervision order).

I'm talking about visa migration, Sunak chose to allow in 764k people, only around 200k are actual workers, the rest are dependants and students, many of whom will stay here.

Now anyone is welcome to make the economic argument.... i'm responding to the nonsense that Labour would be worse, no they wouldn't, they are already saying they'll recognise pro qualifications from the EU, thats a steeping stone to having EU workers here instead of people from the 3rd world.

On X channel crossings, how would would you stop these? only agreements with originating countries and better police co-op will do that but the Tories are only interested in Rwanda.

I see you re till living in the past Clavinova.... 14 years ago on this occasion.

Alexandra2001
Previously, we had migrants from the EU

Over 7 million have applied for settled/pre-settled status - we were expecting half that.

Nope, many are duplicate and from people already returned to the EU plus Govt counts rejected applications and the subsequent new ones.

I don't know about you but i don't hear European accents etc when i'm out n about nor in local hospitals anymore either.

People from EU no longer come here, why would they? FOM for 26 other countries vs expensive visas, income requirements and insurances for the UK.