Why the obsession with maths A level?

[demareradreams]

Inspired by another thread where posters were saying a teen should consider maths instead of psychology even though their planned next steps did not need maths A level.
Maths is great for those that like it and are good at it. Not everyone who is good at it enjoys it. There are uni courses that require maths or for which maths a level would be an advantage. But there are also many courses where it’s not needed. In law or physio, for example, like in the previous thread.
On every A level choices thread, there will be a number of posters saying the teen should do maths instead of (insert another subject). It’s often paired with statements about “soft” subjects what “universities don’t rate as highly”. However when you look at the entry requirements, it’s usually just high grades what are required and they don’t care if the student has done maths or geography or sociology or physics. Unless of course they want to so a maths or physics etc degree.
So yes maths a level is great for students who are very mathematically capable and of course it’s essential if it’s part of the university entry requirements. But for others, other A levels are absolutely fine.

Maths is hard. A lot harder than many other subjects. I don’t get why on earth you’d elect to study it if it’s not a required subject.

Exactly. Some of my teens friends are planning on doing maths and further maths A level. They love maths and are really good at it. My child is doing ok and will pass their GCSE, possibly get a 7 if they work really hard. I know they are not an A level maths candidate, unless they want to come out with a D or an E. And that is fine.

Yeh people often advise on MN that maths is the best A level bc "it keeps the most doors open". I mean yes for maths degree, engineering, economics it's essential; for a science degree for sure it’s useful. I am not anti maths (DS took it). It’s also, I believe, the most popular A level, so chosen by many who don’t intend to take it further. All good.

But in fact if you plan to study Eng lit or French or history or drama then it’s not needed, and other subjects will be. So probs better to take them.

I also agree about "soft subjects" whatever tf those are. All A levels are hard. Eng lit would have been a total non-starter for my DS. And unis will not be more impressed, for the Eng lit degree, by a student offering a PG A in maths than a PG A in sociology. In fact if the maths (taken bc "you must") was a PG of a C, then the A in sociology would be much better.

To sum up: check what subjects are needed for your chosen degree and take them, if you enjoy them; if no specific degree in mind, take subjects you enjoy and will do well at. If that's maths, happy days; if it's German or art or media, also great.

But in fact if you plan to study Eng lit or French or history or drama then it’s not needed, and other subjects will be.

You need to look beyond university. Maths A level keeps a lot of doors open for jobs. Let's be honest, not many employers "require" an Eng Lit degree but many require evidence of good numeracy

In the workplace, you can really tell the people who are confident with maths and those who aren’t. All other things being equal, a good a level in maths is going to be an advantage in the job market. There are very few careers where having a decent understanding of maths isn’t at least vaguely helpful.

And many more require evidence of being able to write reports and critical thinking etc, so an essay-based degree is arguably more useful as a general degree.

@Kingdomofsleep@User1367349thats why pretty much all jobs require a pass at maths GCSE.

GCSE maths is a requirement for many jobs, A level maths not so much. Yes not many employers require an Eng lit degree; but lots require a degree. And better to get a first in Eng lit than a hated third or fail in maths, IMHO.

Actually the ability to write good comprehensible English is highly valued too.

I would be interested to see a list of jobs that require A level maths. Honestly, unless they are maths-related jobs (finance roles, accountancy) in which case I would imagine the employee will have chosen maths A level) I am pretty sure GCSE maths ability will suffice. I’ve worked all my life in a variety of roles; I'm good at maths but I don’t have maths A level. I have never found that a barrier.

@User1367349 a good A level in maths is never a bad thing, for sure. But I am talking about people who will not get a good A level in maths. Would they be better to get a D in maths and hate it, or a B or A in something else?

And as I say, ability and facility in maths (I can work out percentages in my head and use pi) doesn't actually depend upon having A level maths.

It doesn’t depend on having a-level maths, I agree @clary. It is helpful, however, as a marker of numeracy. Scraping a pass at GCSE maths doesn’t get you there in my experience, and it is really sad that the two basic examples you gave probably do set you apart from a significant proportion of the population.

I agree, also, that if you are going to get a D in maths, but an A in “something else”, best to do that something else.

Sadly I meet a lot of people who claim they “just don’t do maths”. It’s a massive bugbear of mine, as I suspect they wouldn’t so proudly claim to be unable to read or write (or even “just not get” music/art etc)

But I also read on here all the time about the huge leap from GCSE to A level maths. That level of knowledge just isn’t necessary for many people. Again, great if you’re capable, but many aren’t. Just like lots of STEM focussed students wouldn’t do well at essay based subjects.

I agree - You don't even need maths a level for accountancy! The maths used in most jobs is not the stuff covered by a level maths. GCSE is fine.

Maths is not just an indication of numeracy. A good grade shows ability in abstract reasoning.

Students heading to good universities in the US are expected to pass courses up to Calc III - even those aiming for a degree in English Lit, Gender Studies, or Anthropology, etc.

Once out in the post-university world, the well rounded academic background makes you a versatile contender in the job market.

In many education systems around the world, students are expected to carry a range of core subjects all the way through secondary.

That has nothing to do with any 'innate' ability of students.
It's a testament to bad teaching.

Just what I was going to say.

You don't even need A levels at all to qualify as an accountant, although you would have to do an intermediate qualification.

The US has a totally different education system though.

That’s it though - there’s a leap between those being taught to scrape a pass at GCSE and the a-level syllabus. I agree with @mathanxiety - it would be better to have a system where maths, English, modern languages are all covered until 18.

In many education systems around the world, students are expected to carry a range of core subjects all the way through secondary.

Which doesn’t mean they’re actually any better at the subject than those who didn’t carry on. I stopped maths after GCSE (syllabuses are different, so don’t know what that would be compared to any US classes) and my maths is far, far better than a good friend of mine who had to study maths until she left her EU country equivalent of sixth form / high school.

Not all A'levels are equal. Harsh but true.

I agree choosing the a'level subjects you need is important. As is choosing subjects you enjoy and are most likely to get a good grade. A lot of degrees require 2 subjects plus ANO.

But if it's a choice, and you're good at maths (grade 8 or 9 at GCSE) why wouldn't you do maths?

When in doubt, choose Maths! You cannot really go wrong with Maths A-levels. But if you are not in doubt (or not that good at it) then one should not do it. It has one of the highest (if not the highest) proportion of As and Astars, so it seems to be possible to get good marks.

Maths is really good for learning about problem solving and critical thinking. Even if you have no intention of using a maths A-Level, the building blocks on your brain it forms are useful in all areas of life. If you are able, it’s worth doing.

I wish my son had not chosen maths A level.

He had always been good at maths, won awards in national maths competitions and got level 8 in GCSE. Everyone said he should do it for A level.

He could not keep up with A level maths. He did pass his AS level but struggled so much just to get a C that he dropped maths completely.

He should have chosen something else.

My child got a 9 in GCSE maths. In their school they pick 4 A levels and then drop one if they want to. That 8 weeks of A-level maths was soul destroying. If there was a million pound on the table I could not have worked out those answers. I was so glad when they dropped it. Not unless you are sooo good at it and absolutely love it should you do A-Level maths. In my childs case the school wouldn’t even entertain you for A level maths unless you got a 9 in GCSE.

DS got 9 in his maths GCSE, got 70% overall in his maths A-level 2 years ago and came away with a B. He had worked hard, never missed a lesson, got 70% - and it still wasn't enough for an A. Missed it by 1 percent I think it was.

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

I wouldn't recommend maths if you don't need it unless you're prospectively going to get an A. DD (now studying a Masters in mathematical physics so obviously enjoys it), was shocked at the amount of very bright friends who dropped it over the two years of the course. Mostly they'd taken it based on good GCSE grades and pushy parents, despite knowing their uni choices probably wouldn't require it.
Maths is known to be one of the hardest A levels, I'd agree given what I've seen with DD and the grades receivedby her classmates. Yes, she did gain all As, but she was ruthless with her study time from day 1 and knew she needed As.

I'm biased as I like Maths, but totally accept GCSE gets you as far as many careers need.

But I would say that there needs to be far greater Maths literacy in Law - especially in statistics. In fact, I think all Barristers, Judges and Solicitors should have to study and attain a certain higher level in Statistics. Similarly the police actually. And yes, I am thinking of certain cases were the understanding of statistics by the powers that be were abysmal.