Argument over food with my 9 yo dd - please help me calm down.

[Dumbledoresgirl]

DD was a fussy eater as a little child and is still quite fussy now. Aside from the pickiness, lately, she has not been eating her packed lunch, or correction, not eating all of it. Since Christmas, I have made all my own bread and the slices are quite large. Dd kept coming home with her 2 slices of bread hardly touched so I started giving her the smaller ends of the bread. Then she complained that the crusts were too chewy (although she liked that before) so now she only has one large slice of bread.

Even so, lunch comes home uneaten. Sometimes it is the bread, (too much, or yucky filling although she only ever has the filling she chooses) sometimes it is the fruit. Today, for the second time this week, she did not eat all her lunch. Before you say I am giving her too much, she took one slice of bread with Bovril on, one yoghurt and one banana. The banana came back uneaten.

I admit I saw red and told her to sit down and eat the banana (she was asking for a snack so I know she was hungry). She refused. Cue huge row. Me ranting, her screaming and crying. I sent her to her room. I am absolutely seething because I feel she should be able to eat 3 small items at lunchtime, and we really shouldn't be having rows about food now she is 9. It is not as if I give her to things in her lunchbox she does not like.

She wears me down. I also have 3 sons. The oldest and youngest have never been such fussy eaters, and the middle one (who, in his day was the fussiest of all of them) is now thankfully willing to try foods he does not like. Why does dd have to be so difficult? What can I do to a) calm down and b) solve this problem.

PS I made chocolate brownies for them all this pm as I like making a treat they all enjoy for Friday afternoons/ teatime. But this row with dd has taken all the joy out of this treat as I now don't want her to have any of it.

god sorry was immensely long!

i am with you seeker
i don't tend to train children either - they watch and learn

I wonder if you can change your focus with your dd over the issue.

You give your dd her food and the rule is she can eat or not eat it (and you will not comment etc etc) but the histronics over her not liking it are NOT acceptable and are not tolerated.

When their is food on my dds plate that they don't want to eat provided they have tried a morsel (and of course there are some things like baked beans 2 of them loath and don't even have to try) but if they start moaning/wailing about what has been given to them they have the option of shutting up or getting down & not having anything to eat!

"why do you think professionals call it toilet training?????? "

professional whats? Professional parents? professional toilet trainers?

Anyway, not all child care professionals do - you'll find a lot that don't.

I agree with seeker. I dont like the word training especially when it comes to food. I am all about healthy eating. I cook healthy food and i put it on the table. And we eat all together. I dont force them to eat a banana, we dont argue about food. My parents come from Italy. You ll not find many 'fussy eaters' among italian children. Maybe because food is not a serious issue or a control issue but a family and fun time.

Franny what a fantastic post and very perceptive and wise. Thank you! Can we all please listen to Franny and calm down. I am feeling stressed reading these posts- what a lot of angry posters out there today!

Also Franny says 'they watch and learn' Ditto. Eat healthy yourself, put it on the table, enjoy! And all these business in UK with kids separate food etc Why? Just eat normal as a family. Simple. And dont let me start on 'Special restaurants for kids' and 'special meals' and toys in restaurants etc

Laqiutar - my mother comes from Sicily. Maybe we should write "Raising Children the Mediterranean Way"!

angry posts????

Wow Fran, v v good post

DGD, I od symapthise as dd1 was v fussy. Actually, she has got so much better as she has got older. Thank god!

Lol Seeker !! Good idea!

great post, fran. Agree completely. Also with the 'watch and learn' point, not training.

and for mrsblanc, I do have a child who is pretty fussy. I just dealt with it in a different way.

would also like to add that I was a nightmare eater as a child. I exsisted for many years on about 10 different foodstuffs.
My parents tried everything, including having me sit for hours in front of a plate of gravy-congealed sprouts....

When I was around 12, I suddenly 'discovered' food and wanted to try as many different kinds and tastes as possible.
Here's the thing, I didn't try them because I had been punished, bullied, emotionally blackmailed, bribed or starved into trying them.

I was just ready.

now, as a parent, I have so much sympathy for my mum..

I am also an extremely adventurous eater, who is a normal weight, who loves food and cooking and - as some of you will testisfy - I regularly eat 10 portions of fruit and veg a day.....

seeker said watch and learn - i was just agreeing with her as i thought it was so true

i really was a fussy beggar too molly but i hated the tastes of so many foods
or the texture
or just the slimy look of them
i know it sounds pathetic and annoying but honestly, imagine being made to eat something that, TO YOU, looked revolting
it's awful

i know you don't force her to eat DG, i'm just talking about some of the attitudes of people about fussy children

Agree totally with Franny.

When I was a child my mother and I were engaged in a food battle for years. I was very stubborn and would sit patiently for hours with a plate of congealing mince and tatties in front of me and then ask politely if I could go to bed (without supper of course). She had to say Yes and off I would go - hungry but trumphant because I had won again. I had school dinners and would scoff everything there, even have seconds, so I was not actually starving myself. I never wanted breakfast (still just have coffee and occasionally toast) and Mum would try to make me eat then send me off to school with a 'piece' (sandwich) to eat on the way. That went straight into a bush in the Council garden round the corner, along with the haliborange tablet we were given every morning. Mum thought they were doing us a power of good but the truth was I never swallowed them and was slightly plump and very healthy. My sister who dutifully ate everying she was given and took her vitamins was really skinny and often ill. It's GENES init!

Situation resolved when Mum went back to full time work and Dad took over most of the cooking, with me assisting and food was just 'there' with no pressure to eat or not.

Almost the only bit of planned parenting that I did was to have plain biscuits and bread and HM jam readily available for anyone who was hungry, supply each DD with a box which had exactly 7 biscuit bars or packs of crisps added each week. Child could eat them all at once, one a day, share with a visiting friend, trade with sister but when it was empty, it remained empty until week was up. This worked really well. Now the really clever bit FRUIT IS THE TREAT. All rewards for good behaviour were fruit, got Grannys on board with this too and they would present satsumas as if this was the biggest treat ever. It was really easy to find enough opportunities to reach 5 a day - put toys away, clear table, go to bed on time, sometimes just because I loved them. Varied fruit with sultanas, dried apricots, nuts, fruit from garden or wild berries and (the biggest treat of all) tinned fruit. DDs still reward themselves with fruit rather than chocolate and it is amusing to see them adopting the fruit as treat thing with their children.

Gosh. Such a lot of posts. So many points.

I don't know how to answer them all so I won't try.

But, I just wanted to let you know I talked to dd today about her attitude towards some foods. Just for me to talk to her about it and listen to her pov is probably a step forward for me as I freely admit, and am not ashamed to say, I had authoritarian parents (and here's the cliche, I came to no harm) and I am now an authoritarian parent myself and believe none of my children will come to harm either. I won't change my basic parenting style as I believe it is right for me, and dh had the same parenting as me and now has the same parenting style as me, so I feel we work well together on this front. If you dislike my parenting style, you will be angry at my seeming intransigence. I am sorry, I can't help that.

BUT, as I said, I did talk to dd about her attitudes to some food and it was interesting to hear what she said and I think some of you trendy, laid-back parents would have been proud of me for having the talk.

One interesting thing dd said. She said there weren't many foods she did not like (interesting perception she has!) so I named a few that I could think of off-hand. Most she agreed she did not like, but when I got on to some vegetables, she interrupted me and said, very strongly that she did like sprouts and peas and beans and one other I can't remember. Now I can clearly remember the Bad Old Days when it was only safe to offer her and her fussy brother carrots or baked beans or swede (cubed, not mashed). The presence of any of the above named vegetables on her plate would result in her refusing to eat anything at all. She was also like that with broccoli, cauliflower, sweetcorn, etc, all veggies I now know she likes.

So, I am sorry to say it, but that is one very positive point for the training children to eat foods they would not initially volunteer to eat. Because all of those veggies have been repeatedly put in front of her over the years as I have doggedly tried to get her to eat healthily.

Now if she would eat a raw carrot stick or a piece of cucumber or a cherry tomato or some cress or some other salad or vegetable with her sandwich at lunchtime, I would happily give up on the fruit that I insist on her (and the others) having each day.

Thank you FranneyandZooey - nice to have my words of wisdom acknowledged! But you expressed what I think so much better than I could.

It just seems such a no brainer to me - why on earth would you spend any time battling over food? They aren't going to starve - when you think of the children who grow to healthy adulthood all over the world on FAR less food than we expect out children to eat it really makes you stop and think.

But it is not about battling over food. (apart from last night's mistake). I don't battle dd over food. But I do give her foods to eat which she would not choose to eat if left to her own devices. I am sorry, I am not prepared to see my dd grow up eating only chocolate and biscuits.

sometimes though it works within a few weeks...I mean we have no will power in this house (well us adults)...within a month ds had expanded his range....thing was...he wasn't eating much or any protein, and that did worry me....

anyway, those that say, you don't ever force your kids to eat anything...
what do you do...you just put the same stuff out for all...even if you know one child will dislike all, and if they not eat anything , then that is fine and then what...if they are hungry...what do you offer? and if all healthy option would be negatively responded too...then what...would you say, ok have that cake?
BTW, when we did this pressurising thing with ys, we always made sure there was a reasonable portion of whatever he liked on the plate,too...
not enough to totally satisfy, but enough to not be starving...
also...as I know my ys and ms hate mixed foods, like casserole, I would not ask ys to eat that, it wopuld always be seperate "dry" things....I assume he hates sauces because of consistency...we just wanted him to expand his world and the flavours, experience them and give them a chance...

I used to be a fussy eater, but eat many things now...but will still not eat jam etc. on toast or sandwich....it was something I was made to eat on respite holiday, but not just a try, I had to eat whatever was put infront of me morsel by morsel....and that is a different concept altogether, imo....

Aaa seeker just seen this. I thought was Franney who said it sorry . But i agree with eerything the two of you said anyway

FairLady, it might not be relevant in your situation, but this is something I found worked well trying to get my lot to broaden the number of vegetables they were prepared to eat. I only did it (and sometimes still do) at Sunday lunchtime when we usually have a roast. I would cook 3 different vegetables, always one I knew they would all eat (carrots usually), then 2 others that they were less keen on/did not like. I then told them they had to choose 2 of the vegetables. I found that worked quite well. They were not fooled by it of course, they knew they were being made to eat something they did not like, but it was their choice which one they had.

Not sure what seeker and F&Z would say to that, but, well, I was pleased with the idea. And of course, through doing this each Sunday, they gradually grew used to eating different veggies. I think my children now eat a better range of veggies than most children, and I really don't think there is a vegetable now that I could not try them on (I love my veggies and was heartily sick of eating carrots day in day out).

i'm not angry at all DG., but i too thought you were asking for ideas on trying a different tack with this in the hopes of lessening the conflict between you and dd

was i wrong? were you just getting it off your chest?

and as to what i do with ds1, if he is hungry, he has the fruit bowl plus a drawer full of snacks (healthy only, such as nuts, dried fruit) that he can help himself to
if he doesn't want those then i can be pretty sure he is not hungry and is probably bored / asking for attention instead

Yes, I would love to know how to get my dd to be less fussy (well, all my children have their moments actually, but dd is currently the worst). But it has to fit with my parenting style iyswim. eg I can't just say "ok dd eat what you like", because, I am sorry, I know she will not eat anything healthy. I couldn't do that to her as her loving mother.

I wish my children would snack on fruit. The only one who comes close to doing that is my eldest, ds1, who will sometimes demolish a whole punnet of strawberries in one go, but he is nearly 13 and eats whatever is not tied down.

I say the same thing to my children as you do to your ds viz "If you are hungry, there is fruit". It is synonymous (in their minds)with saying "No, you can't have a snack".

lol i don't think anyone has said "just eat what you like"
ds's snack drawer doesn't just contain fruit
if you only buy healthy food then they only eat healthy food, that is one possibility
are you buying food you don't want her to eat? why?