Losing Adult Children to Gender Ideology?

onthefence23 · 30/04/2023 07:33

This seems a bit bonkers, I'm gender critical but wouldn't cut a family member off. Why on earth would you need to talk about it. Agreeing not to talk about a subject you disagree on is quite normal in a family

I would rather see my dd and not mention one issue than not see her at all. Not to mention, as a lawyer I'm reasonably confident legal cases are pretty tedious for anyone not directly involved.

It would likely be better to maintain a relationship so she sees you as loving and sensible and might come to be open to listening to your way of thinking rather than being able to write you off as a rabid transphobe who can't drop it for 48 hours and chat to your daughter about literally anything else

Original poster

LaGiaconda · 01/05/2023 12:07

I have spent the last 11 months saying very little knowing that my daughter finds the topic difficult.. l have spoken to her briefly and factually on perhaps three occasions, to say my work for the organisation had been brought to an end and why, that I was seeking, that an ET1 had been submitted. That sort of thing. Obviously it is quite difficult to be told by a loved child that your behaviour is hateful and that they too would have fired you if they'd been your employer. But I stayed calm.

The case is now at a point where crowdfunding is likely to happen because attempts at settlement by the lawyers on either side are going nowhere. So a further update had seemed advisable.

Unfortunately being involved in litigation does take up quite a lot of emotional energy/headspace. The people advising and supporting me do feel the case is a significant one in relation to a number of issues. These include the status of (so called) independent contractors, the freedom of workers to express lawful opinions on matters that are hotly debated, when outside the workplace, discrimination in rely to belief, and indirect age discrimination.

So being asked to keep completely quiet on this topic feels as if I am being asked to contain something that is - for better or worse - a big part of my life at present.

Rather as my daughter might feel as if she had formed a relationship that was important to her, but I had said I did not wish to meet the person and no longer wished her to make any reference to the other person.

OP posts:

NorthStarRising · 01/05/2023 12:20

I have an adult daughter in the TWAW and TERFS are bad camp.
I’m a second wave, GC feminist.
There are some topics we agree to differ on, don’t discuss and secretly hope that the other will come to their senses and change their minds.We currently know where we both stand.
I grew up in a sexist 60s household with a dominant male, so I like compromise and flexibility. If you can’t do that, then it’s probably better that she steps back and cancels than you have two days of arguments and a developing fracture in your family.

Greenfairydust · 01/05/2023 12:25

I would say choose your battles..

I can understand that you feel strongly about something but it has got to a point where you are losing jobs and relatives over it I would say that is a bit extreme.

Your daughter is not a carbon-copy of yourself and therefore is likely to have views that might differ from yours.

Healthy debate is fine but you can't push your views on others.

Sometimes you have to agree to disagree.

I would cut off a racist, homophobic relative or someone who has the Andrew Tate type of mentality about women, but not another woman who might different feminist views on gender, sex and so on.

VeronicaBeccabunga · 01/05/2023 12:50

I am really sorry that you are facing both litigation and conflict with your daughter.
I wish you success with your legal proceedings and admire you for taking this on.

Original poster

LaGiaconda · 01/05/2023 13:03

I should stress that I am not trying to change my daughter's mind. I would simply prefer to be able to offer her occasional brief factual updates about something important that is going on iny life. Rather as if I were going through, for example, a medical procedure.

And while for some losing work might seem 'extreme, I would agree it is an extreme situation where Tweeting about one's view that single sex spaces are in some contexts important results in a) instant dismissal and b) bizarrely, not even telling me they had got rid of me.

OP posts:

Mammothwoollyjumper · 01/05/2023 13:20

LaGiaconda · 01/05/2023 12:07

I have spent the last 11 months saying very little knowing that my daughter finds the topic difficult.. l have spoken to her briefly and factually on perhaps three occasions, to say my work for the organisation had been brought to an end and why, that I was seeking, that an ET1 had been submitted. That sort of thing. Obviously it is quite difficult to be told by a loved child that your behaviour is hateful and that they too would have fired you if they'd been your employer. But I stayed calm.

The case is now at a point where crowdfunding is likely to happen because attempts at settlement by the lawyers on either side are going nowhere. So a further update had seemed advisable.

Unfortunately being involved in litigation does take up quite a lot of emotional energy/headspace. The people advising and supporting me do feel the case is a significant one in relation to a number of issues. These include the status of (so called) independent contractors, the freedom of workers to express lawful opinions on matters that are hotly debated, when outside the workplace, discrimination in rely to belief, and indirect age discrimination.

So being asked to keep completely quiet on this topic feels as if I am being asked to contain something that is - for better or worse - a big part of my life at present.

Rather as my daughter might feel as if she had formed a relationship that was important to her, but I had said I did not wish to meet the person and no longer wished her to make any reference to the other person.

I think you need to show your daughter you value her more than being able to give a 'brief factual update'. It's not the same as a 'relationship' for her at all, and you shouldn't give yourself credit for remaining calm. You are the parent. While it's difficult when you disagree with close family, you love her and that is more important.

pikkumyy77 · 01/05/2023 13:24

As a mother with two daughters who I love I really feel for you. To be estranged from our children is hard. To lose their respect and confidence would be terrible.

But you have to expect, when you join a crusade that you take so seriously that you risked your job over it that there are other people who take a different view who are equally passionately committed to their view of the incident.

Trans people in the US are losing their jobs, losing representation, and losing their lives at a horrifying rate thanks to out and proud attacks on their right to live unmolested in public spaces.

Like many younger people your daughter may know lots of gender non conforming people for whom the passionate anti trans movement feels like an enormous attack—the thin end of the wedge becoming a battering ram.

Im sure there is no doubt your daughter grieves the loss of closeness with you—her inability to support you through this difficult experience. But she has chosen to keep in contact with you even though you and she have different values around this issue. If she is asking to stay in contact while keeping politics and your chosen conflict out of things I think thats good. At any rate better than outright rejection.

RedHelenB · 01/05/2023 13:26

LaGiaconda · 30/04/2023 07:28

I wondered about a thread for people to share experiences. Also interested in hearing about relationships that have been rebuilt between GC parents whose children are/were believers in identity ideology.

I am a gender critical feminist who is currently involved in litigation. I lost work after a Tweet of the #IStandWithJKRowling type. Because I know my daughter (mid 20s, living 100 miles away) has very different views, I have only given her brief details of the case, which has been going on for many months.

Some days back she messaged saying she wanted me and her Dad to promise not to mention the case at all on her forthcoming visit to us.

It didn't feel right for her to try and say what we could and couldn't talk about in our own home. When we said we wanted to enjoy her visit, but did feel it was sometimes right to talk about difficult stuff, she cancelled.

It is upsetting.

.

Why was that a hill to die on for you? My dc don't share similar views on ut either, but we just agree to disagree and don't talk about it once one side has made that request.

crosstalk · 01/05/2023 13:28

There are a number of topics I avoid with my DC that have taken up a lot of my headspace. Including eg marital difficulties, work problems etc.

I am as GC as it comes, but I wouldn't not see someone dear who refused to talk about issues even if it related to my loss of job etc.

Hbh17 · 01/05/2023 13:31

I am sympathetic to your GC position, but I struggle to understand why your daughter would need "brief factual updates" about the litigation. Parents often don't discuss their own medical issues, to avoid upsetting adult children (and vice versa), so this is pretty much the same. If she only plans to stay for a few says, then surely this subject could be avoided - which would be a welcome break for all of you.

Original poster

LaGiaconda · 01/05/2023 13:34

I do/have done the normal things. Showing interest in her life. Messages. Gifts. Expressions of affection. Welcoming her partner and her friends. Cooking favourite meals. Praising her achievements.

My sense is that I am being blamed for not having the opinions that are felt to be progressive, and that as long as I have these wrong opinions, the very least I am meant do is suppress all evidence of them.

It just adds to the pressure. I think litigation is up there with divorce - something I've not done and major bereavement (done) in terms of stress levels.

My husband, utterly supportive, is pretty gutted as well.

I appreciate that growing up is a long business, with many twists and turns in the road, and that patience is required. This too will pass etc. But it is only human to feel a bit frustrated with one's adult children at times.

OP posts:

Elieza · 01/05/2023 13:35

I have a relative who goes on and on about a forthcoming court case.

I can’t be doing with the stress of it all. I’ve too much of my own stress. I literally can’t take any more.

So I completely understand a request to not discuss stressful shit. I’ve done the same.

It’s not the topic in my case it’s just the stress factor and having to listen to it all the fucking time. the conversation always ends up there.

I didn’t mind at first.
But that was last year and I’ve heard it all.
It’s not my problem.
I don’t want to know.
Sorry to my relative for not being more supportive but I’m just exhausted.

Deciding not to discuss means you get to see each other. I’d be up for that.

JulieHoney · 01/05/2023 13:39

OP, I think this should be in Sex and Gender, not the general board.

I disagree with my children over GC issues. They see it as an attack on their trans and non-binary identifying friends, I see it as defending women’s rights and dignity under the law while respecting individuals’ rights to present as suits them.

We’ve just agreed not to discuss it. I understand their position, they understand mine and we both think the other is wrong on some critical points.

We don’t agree on every other important issue either, nor should we.

I appreciate it’s a significant part of your life while going through legal battles, but you can keep that separate from conversations with your daughter. Your mutual relationship is too important.

cosmiccosmos · 01/05/2023 13:46

I think this shows a lack of maturity on your daughters part. I agree that it is wrong of her to tell you what she will accept discussing in your home. After all she just needs to say 'look Mum I'm struggling with this and don't want to talk about it'.

She is the one who doesn't seem able to compromise. What a shame she isn't showing you any support at all.

Original poster

LaGiaconda · 01/05/2023 13:49

Some of my sense is the need to update is about the likelihood that crowdfunding will involve publicity, press etc.

So would my daughter appreciate a heads-up? Or would she rather have one of her gender identity supporting friends say out of the blue, 'OMG, I saw this thing about your Mum on Twitter'?

As with the medical analogy. Someone in the wider family chose not to inform their adult children about a deteriorating medical condition. A good call you might say. Why worry them. Only those children were then shocked, upset and furious to discover their parent was in hospital and had had major heart surgery.

OP posts:

CurlewKate · 01/05/2023 13:58

We have this issue-except without the added complication of a court case-that must make it incredibly hard. We have agreed not to talk about it. It is the only topic that we as a family can't talk about- and it makes me incredibly sad. And it makes me incredibly sad that my children think less of me for my opinions-and, although I try hard not to, I think I think less of them. And just to add-we don't agree on everything-of course we don't. But we have always been able to talk before!

NorthStarRising · 01/05/2023 14:00

You’ve asked for opinions, you have received them. As usual, it’s a mixed bag.
But the decision about how to proceed in your own family is up to you.
Currently, you are choosing not to be dictated to, and your daughter is keeping her distance from you. Stalemate.

SweetSakura · 01/05/2023 14:06

You asked people's thoughts , people gave them. It seems you aren't prepared to compromise in order to prioritise your relationship with your daughter. That seems a huge shame. It's certainly not the choice I would make, but it is of course a choice you are free to make.

Spiderywriting · 01/05/2023 14:08

I also have a DD in her mid twenties who is stuck in the TWAW/Be Kind mode. She is living with us at the moment and I noticed a ‘Trans Rights are Human Rights’ poster on her bedroom wall, which enraged me.

While we can discuss general feminist issues and I would say in many ways she is leaning towards radical feminism, she just refuses to listen to any GC views.

Like the poster upthread she has trans and bi friends who have basically brainwashed her - to be fair she is not the brightest.

TBH she makes me so angry sometimes that I feel like packing her stuff and kicking her out.

I think the only way is to be like me and bite your tongue. I realise it must be incredibly stressful not to be able to discuss this massive trauma in your life, but I think the alternative is being cut off. Do her friends actually recognise you/know your Twitter handle etc. If so maybe block the lot of them on social media.

SweetSakura · 01/05/2023 14:09

I'm also curious whether fighting this legal battle is the right or only option.

You sound very stressed by it, it's costing you family relationships. Even if you win it could be a pyrrhic victory . Is there a way to put it behind you and rebuild your career instead?

MangoSplit · 01/05/2023 14:10

I am GC and my brother is trans rights. My parents have maintained a neutral stance and kept a good relationship with both of us. They've done it so successfully that I have no idea what their true opinions on the matter are!

The court case sounds very stressful

McGonagallshatandglasses · 01/05/2023 14:15

I know a few women who have lost family over this issue.

I understand why it might not be a thing you can compromise on any more.

I hope you find some solace and solidarity in this thread.

Lovecleansheets · 01/05/2023 14:37

I have 2 DC who do not share my “sex is binary and immutable” views. It is possibly the only issue we do not discuss - it gets bitter and each party is entrenched - but we continue to show love and respect to each other thankfully.

Your situation though is very different. I would be devastated if I’d been sacked for holding this view and I would need the love and support of my children. You must feel incredibly hurt, OP. Like you, I have a 100% understanding DH who respects women’s rights; to be honest, if he were not, I’d feel bereft. The litigation you are facing, the publicity, the struggle to have this awful judgement of you overturned will be exhausting and extremely stressful: I am sending love and sympathy.

You must feel that your daughter is rejecting you? I hope that time will show her how your views are acceptable and indeed legitimate. You are not anti anyone‘s rights. You are a feminist who supports women’s rights.

In the meantime I think you should prioritise you for a bit. You will need your strength and energy for what lies ahead. Your daughter is an adult and if she doesn’t wish to discuss the biggest thing happening in your life then you cannot make her but she can’t expect you to pretend you’re feeling fine and dandy when you’re not.

Keep the lines of communication open but this is a battle where she is against you. Lots of us here support your views and are cheering you on. I hope very much that you have friends in your corner: one day perhaps your daughter will appreciate your courage and integrity. I do.

CurlewKate · 01/05/2023 14:43

@pikkumyy77"Trans people in the US are losing their jobs, losing representation, and losing their lives at a horrifying rate thanks to out and proud attacks on their right to live unmolested in public spaces."

As an aside- could you tell me about trans people who have lost their lives?