Losing Adult Children to Gender Ideology?

lots of people on here telling you to ‘keep the peace’ and respect other people’s views. Not so much about your daughter possibly offering you a bit of support at an incredibly stressful time. That’s what fear and intimidation achieves.

In a few years time, I firmly believe that your daughter will be boasting about you as a courageous and far sighted woman who would not bow down before the altar of biological impossibility.

of course, if people like you do not succeed in their défense of reality and medical integrity, we are all going to have a lot to worry about.

Ii expect this post to vanish in a few minutes, so I hope you receive it.

@MangoSplit "They've done it so successfully that I have no idea what their true opinions on the matter are!"

I can see why this would work for some people. But I would hate for me or my children not to know each other's views on a important issue like this. After 20 years of robust-sometimes angry-discussions on practically everything you can think of it's so depressing that it comes to this.

From OP's description, it sounds like she did not "risk her job" but commented on social media on a political issue, after which her employer fired her. Most of us would not consider engaging in political debate or activism, whether online or in person, as risking our jobs.

Trans people in the US are losing their jobs, losing representation, and losing their lives at a horrifying rate thanks to out and proud attacks on their right to live unmolested in public spaces. If this is true, it is not relevant to OP. OP is presumably in the UK, since this is a UK board and OP hasn't indicated to the contrary. It is as though you had replied to OP that women in Afghanistan are losing their jobs, losing representation, and losing their lives at a horrifying rate, and on that basis OP's problems are too small-level to count in the world scale. In the UK, there are almost no murders of 'trans people'.

OP, like many women, is concerned about the lives of women to live unmolested in public spaces.

@LaGiaconda in your position I think you were right not to promise to mention your case.

For those who have never been involved in an ET etc. it can be difficult to understand the mental and physical impact it has on all parties.

At the moment it is a huge part of your life and the idea you cannot say anything about the case, how you are feeling etc. in your own home for several days is not a reasonable request.

There is no way you could make that promise, so you were being fair when you said no.

I agree once it becomes news your daughter will turn round and say why didn’t you tell me. Being able to say you chose not to know, will not be any comfort to either of you.

I really empathise with you.
Good luck with your case.

Why on earth would you risk your relationship with your daughter?

Nothing is worth that. Surely you can discuss this issue with your daughter frankly and agree to hold different opinions?

@pikkumyy77 - Trans people in the US are losing their jobs, losing representation, and losing their lives at a horrifying rate thanks to out and proud attacks on their right to live unmolested in public space

Really??

Proof?

They are certainly not losing representation. And I don't believe the murder rate of trans people is anywhere near the rate at which women are murdered.

You lost work after one tweet? I am very sympathetic. I wish you all the very best with your litigation. It all sounds very stressful.
Solidarity!

I'm not stew what I'd do about your dd. Probably see her, try to build bridges, and stay off the topic of gender altogether. But I can't imagine how hard that is. 💐

I think you are being very rigid about this, and risking losing contact your daughter.

There are decent, intelligent people who have fallen on both sides of this debate. She feels deeply that you are doing something immoral, so you can't expect her support in the litigation, however much of a stressor it is in your life. Surely you can see that at best she will be biting her tongue and thinking you are making terrible choices, if the topic comes up?

Offering to see you and not discuss the topic is a very sensible suggestion from her, to try to preserve a relationship despite a huge difference of opinion. It shows she values that relationship. You keep saying - oh but she needs a heads up on X, or Y. No, she has clearly stated her preference not to hear about it, and unless she's an idiot she'll be aware that events might surprise her. She has weighed up the pros and the cons of this request, so you should respect that and not second guess it.

From her point of view, I would feel very sad that you are so focussed on your campaigning that you can't put it aside for one weekend to spend time together, and connect with her about all the other topics in the world.

The OP asked for support and opinions and I gave her mine. I’m a 62 year old heterosexual, married, white, old school feminist and mother of two daughters. I speak as I find.

As for my observation about the US a variety of high profile murders and attacks on Trans people are quite well documented. You can gooogle and find out right now that a trans legislator has been forced to leave the legislative chamber in her state simply for advocating for her constituents.

The GC movement is an international movement, as is the trans rights movement. We see the same provocative stories, from both perspectives, move swiftly from one country to another. So I think it may be useful for posters here to see the end game for trans people in the admittedly more virulent and violent form anti trans activism takes in the US.

the reason I think its useful is that posters here often seem puzzled by why their children don’t get where they are coming from. It is sometimes because the younger generation gets their information and understanding from different sources and have different values.

I'm estranged from my parents at the moment due to their behaviour and quite honestly I expect them to do most of the work to fix things. Yes I am adult, but I am not going to lie, I would much prefer to not be estranged. I miss them in my life.

Ultimately op the decisions you make now will have a permanent impact on what kind of relationship you have with your daughter going forward.

Personally I would be gutted if my parent put their "cause" ahead of our relationship

I believe very strongly that parents should not burden their children with their own problems (with the exception of ill health to the extent they need family support).

You are a grown woman with a partner and friends and it sounds like a whole supportive community around you. Why do you need even more support from your daughter?

She has offered a good compromise, maintaining a relationship while avoiding this one topic. It's a compromise that many many people stick to, for a huge range of issues, because they love and value their family members. Why are you any different? What makes it impossible for you?

This is such a difficult situation. It's hard to see someone you love with such a starkly opposing viewpoint, especially when it's a faith based issue on one side.

I think your DD is being really unsympathetic and should be doing better to support you, even if her belief system means she doesn't understand how or why it all came about. It's a shame she is so entrenched that she's lost that ability for now.

Perhaps you could explain it to her the way you have here? The chances are there will come a day when she does understand things better because the ideology as it is doesn't really stand up to any scrutiny but for the time being perhaps you could figure out a way to be there for each other without the subject matter coming up?

Are you looking for advice, opinion, sympathy or solidarity for this situation?

Right now you’re losing time with your adult child due to choices each of you is making. You can’t control her thinking, actions or choices, but you can control yours.

Part of getting along and maintaining relationships where there is difference is knowing when to just drop the subject, and choose topics you can relax with.

She wants to spend time with you, but without having a contentious topic discussed. Thats her choice and you can’t control it.

Just like she can’t control your choice to tweet and then go to tribunal over the consequence.

She’s trying to meet you in the middle and maintain a relationship with boundaries, but your most recent choice is to say no to that.

Given you described it as “losing her to gender ideology” I can see where she maybe feels judged, and unwilling to be in conversations where she’s going to be either complicit in a position she really disagrees with or in a full blown argument that risks a rift.

I can’t see why you wouldn’t respect her boundary on this one thing for this short visit.

We have friends who disagree profoundly on some things, so we stay away from those topics. For a daughter I’d avoid any topic under the sun if that’s what works.

"Are you looking for advice, opinion, sympathy or solidarity for this situation?"

Probably all of the above.

This is wonderfully wise advice

@SweetSakura @Titerama I agree with you up to a point.

There is no way the op can know what phone calls, emails, texts etc that she may receive about her case whilst DD is visiting. Her initial reaction may break the promise she is being asked to make to DD.

Her DD asked the op “to promise not to mention the case at all on her forthcoming visit to us.”

I don’t believe anyone can reasonably promise this, no matter what happens. For example “DH just received a text need to do xyz.” Promise broken.

It would be much more reasonable and honest to say I will not talk to you about the details of the case or about my beliefs, but I cannot promise I won’t have to deal with the impact of the case. I will do everything I can to make sure it is out of earshot but I can’t promise to say absolutely nothing in my own home for the whole of your visit.

If I said to you, promise me for the next 48 hours you will not mention or allude to something that is really important to you. Could you really promise that?

I would if it meant keeping a relationship with my child

(But then I would drop the legal case if it meant keeping the relationship with my child)

Ok then.

Advice: prioritise an amicable relationship with your daughter over your need or want to discuss or mention the tribunal situation with her.

Opinion: you won’t regret the absence of an argument you didn’t have in your old age - but you would surely regret the absence of your daughter from your life in a long term rift.

Sympathy: a tribunal is a huge big deal. I’d choose to walk away if at all possible having been through a tribunal. They’re draining, and it’s ok to not do it.

Solidarity: this one I can’t do, but I’m sure you have others around you who can offer that. Try to connect with them to get what you need, offload and for emotional support.

Just remember that queer theory aspires to turn parent and child against one other, transforming the family into a site of political struggle. Alienate your daughter and you've played right into the hands of your ideological enemies. Both personally and politically, it's vital that you maintain a loving and harmonious relationship with her.

The barrier to harmonious relationship seems to be the OP feeling that parking up a notoriously contentious topic when interacting with her daughter is too much to ask of her.

It doesn't matter what the topic is if the OP’s reluctance to hit pause is that “it’s sometimes right to talk about difficult stuff” even when someone you love asks you not to.

OP wants support and understanding - but pushing the topic on her daughter isn’t getting that result. All that’s doing is creating distance.

I can’t imagine encouraging the OP to blame it on queer theory ideological alienation is likely to them find common ground or harmony either.

OP, I am sorry but I would encourage you to keep a good relationship with your daughter even if some topics are temporarily off the table.

Trans people in the US are losing their jobs, losing representation, and losing their lives at a horrifying rate thanks to out and proud attacks on their right to live unmolested in public spaces.

This is most decidedly untrue.

I only have US data, but I think it's relevant as we know male pattern violence has similar trends around the world. Please note that the US has a much higher murder rate but take of it what you will. I pulled the following to give context to this reporting www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/report-says-at-least-32-transgender-people-were-killed-in-the-u-s-in-2022

Rates are per 100,000

There were 24,576 recorded homicides in 2022. 1,011 of these murders were children under the age of 14. A rate of 1.7

4,618 women were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 2.8

19,958 men were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 12.3

332 Native American men were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 13.5.

11,935 Black men were murdered in the US in 2022. That's a rate of 52.7!!!!

Native American men make up roughly 1.4% of the US population. Pew Research in 2021 found that about 1.6% of US adults are transgender or non-binary. So similar sized populations.

Compare 32 trans people murdered vs 332 Native Men for a similar sized population.

My very rough math is putting the murder rate of transwomen to about 1.28 so BELOW the rate of women being murdered and FAR below the rates of male populations.

The murder rate for US children ages 0-14 per 100k is 1.7.

Trans people and non-binary people are SAFER than children in the US.

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

You can gooogle and find out right now that a trans legislator has been forced to leave the legislative chamber in her state simply for advocating for her constituents.

Slightly off topic (sorry, OP), but that's not what happened.

Zooey Zephyr is an elected Representative in the Montana House of Representatives who was suspended from legislative committees and from speaking on the floor of the chamber for breaking the rules of the assembly (set by the legislature itself). This scenario is similar to how (for example) UK MPs would be asked to leave the HoC for using "unparliamentary language" toward a colleague, party, the house itself, etc. Unlike in the HoC, Zephyr was and is still permitted to vote during the suspension and observe, although not actively participate in, all of the business of the House. (There may have been interference here, whether intentionally or just due to the unusual circumstances and staff not knowing how to accomodate a long-term suspended member, but that's a separate path to determine and redress.)

The suspension would have been negligible, but Zephyr (1) insisted on speaking on the floor AFTER being suspended, (2) continued to refuse to apologize (for the personal attack) and (3) (was perceived to have) encouraged a mob to storm the legislature building to demand the decision be reversed. This is not allowed in any case - one lawmaker cannot interfere with the normal functioning of the other 99 - but it's especially sensitive in the wake of the January 6 2020 Capitol protests in DC and the controversy over whether Trump incited the protest.

Zephyr sued, claiming free speech violations, and lost on the grounds that free speech does not supercede the laws of the assembly or the laws that govern public safety. Zephyr IS NOT claiming that there was illegal discrimination due to gender reassignment/gender identity or any other protected characteristic, nor asking for any special treatment because of being trans. It's important to understand that because it is not fair to Zephyr (nor, arguably, to trans people who might experience backlash) if the situation is falsely presented that way.

The principle being tested here is whether the the Montana House of Representatives retains “exclusive constitutional authority” to discipline its own members. The state courts say yes. The decision can be appealed to ahigher court IF Zephyr chooses to pursue.

Generations will differ in opinions. I think your daughter was sensible and respectful to ask that something she clearly finds hard to discuss with you, is not discussed.

I used to ask my mum not to discuss race with me as IMO she was quite racist. I didn't want it to end in arguments. I just wanted to have a nice time with her when we met

It's not hard to avoid certain topics if your child has respectfully asked for that. In fact, I think it shows she wants to be in your company and enjoy it and she's self aware enough to know that some conversations trigger her and she'd prefer not to have them and there to be a risk that the conversation might ruin the day...